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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 30 2015 : 10:46:01 AM
Hello,

I have just got a Fed-Arsenal, very bad condition but very cheap. So, I won't be deceived!
This camera is certainly a fantasy camera. But it seems that a small series could have been made at Arsenal's before Fed begin again their work. With Fed spare parts, of course.

I don't know more than that was said here on the subject five years ago: http://ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1549
And I don't forget that Bill's one was made of Zorki 1b parts: http://ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=76&ParentID=1&ContentID=21&Item=FED%2DArsenal

That said, I wonder (just a little!)... On my s/n 00067, some parts don't come from Fed's: the view counter (pins between 10/15 and 30/35) and the speed dial, with a different engraving. And the 00004 (on Abramov's and Luiz's sites) has exactly the same replacing parts, as if they had missed when mounting the camera and the factory (or the forger?) had to re-make them...

Here is a photo of the seller (The camera is not yet here)


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3062015_Fed Arsenal 1.jpg

Any ideas? Do we know other Fed Arsenal cameras now?

Thanks. Jacques.

50   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Alfa2 Posted - Feb 20 2017 : 05:38:42 AM
I saw similar sign in a FED. But it was long time ago. I don't remember in which FED it was and what was the sign.
Jacques M. Posted - Feb 19 2017 : 11:52:59 AM
Thanks, Luiz.

By this article, there is an inscription inside the Fed bodies, which represents the date of making.
In my Fed Arsenal, I have a "III" on the body, behind the film plate (photo already posted).


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1922017_DSCF2178.JPG

Could it be for march?

Jacques.

Luiz Paracampo Posted - Feb 17 2017 : 11:15:31 AM
more about FED Arsenal
http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=9
Regards to all
LP
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 14 2016 : 05:38:47 AM

Two of the lenses on these Fed-Arsenal are 1935 Fed "1 turn".
I have added them in the wiki.

Thanks to the owners!

Jacques.
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 07 2016 : 04:50:16 AM
Thanks for the translation, Vlad.
The photo of this Fed 1e is too bad to see correctly the spring and what is around it. However, we can see that the speed dial and the frame counter are of the Fed-Arsenal type...

The photo of the Fed-Arsenal s/n 00043 is much interesting. It shows extra holes for the screws of the slow speed spring and the connection towards the selector. It corresponds to those which can be observed on the Fed "B".


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/762016_fed arsenal s-n 43.png

This Fed-Arsenal s/n 00043 could have been a Fed "B" in a better life... Note that these extra holes don't exist on any of my own Fed 1-s, nor my Fed-Arsenal s/n 00067.

Amitiés. Jacques.

Vlad Posted - Jun 06 2016 : 10:50:57 AM
Sorry for a delayed reply. Regarding the picture of the FED that I posted earlier with a initials cover, here's what the caption says and I'm not sure how accurate that is but it's a very interesting statement:

FED-Arsenal" with an "Berdsk" [1e] engraving "FED №183569."
The camera body was designed for model "B". [note the covered slow dial hole]
Hole exists for 1\1000 in speed dial disk.
All of the features characteristic of the species of Kiev's FED Arsenal except panel and lens are available.
Here, the cover assembly is not sandblasted chrome and just grinded - noticeable on the surface of the cover.
It seems that they just did not have sandblaster.
Another feature - the shutter spring - pink colorб unpainted.
Chromed panel - without nickel substrate.


The description of this camera looked peculiar to me that it may have a been a leftover parts camera that was partially assembled in Berdsk as FED-B with leftover 1e cover.. and later Arsenal got same kind of camera body leftovers to do FED-Arsenal? This story has too many confusing unknowns that is why FED-Arsenal is going to sit in "contested" category until there is a undisputable passport or documentation for a specific camera.

And to add to what Bill wrote, Lenny, there is a tradition on this forum to make a separate post introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about yourself, what you collect, how long, a little bit about your collection. Given your heavy participation I'm sure a lot of long time members are interested of who is the "mysterious" Lenny . It would be great if you do such a post. I promise I will not send robbers to your house while you're a member of this forum

Best regards,
Vlad
nightphoto Posted - Jun 05 2016 : 8:47:52 PM
The entry for FED-Arsenal was moved from the "Modified and Fantasy Cameras" section to the "Unidentified / Contested Authenticity" section. This is a step up for the FED-Arsenal ... from "Fantasy" to "Contested Authenticity". No doubt when and if there becomes documentary is proof that these cameras are the ones that were actually made by Arsenal, then they will be moved to another category. I would also ask Lenny who he is, and where he lives (just which country - no one will get his address to take his cameras) and to volunteer some information about his collection or experience. We have all done so over the years and have not been robbed because of it. Just sharing information with some other interested friends.

Regards, Bill

Jacques M. Posted - Jun 05 2016 : 3:09:15 PM
Yes, of course! Very funny, indeed!
We put a 1 turn Fed lens (unfindable) on a Fed-Arsenal, unfindable too! All that to fake. Certainly, we are joking...
Don't you feel "we" are ridiculous ?

And every day , you decide to re-evaluate the wiki, by yourself, if I understand correctly? Once more time, I ask the question: who are you to do so? Could you give us a sign showing that you are a collector rather than a troll?

About the Fed s/n 155, certainly it's not the subject, or I am wrong, once more? Perhaps you should open a new thread?

And please, don't use capital letters. Between us, though old, I am not deaf

Jacques.
Lenny Posted - Jun 05 2016 : 12:13:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.

But we have already decided that the s/n 00022 is a fake!

And we forget too that normal rules of production cannot be applied to this period of recovery. For example, the two "1 turn" lenses that we find on the s/n 00127 and 00216 are curious.

Note that I have not said that this camera is genuine: for the moment, it's just impossible to know. But I discuss for peanuts: all the series is in the "contested or unauthentified" section!



"WE" decided nothing.
Vlad and Bill decided to put it in the contested section.
I decide every day new how I think about certain cameras. Every day I evaluate new and if I get new information I might come to new conclusions. But for now #00022 is not original to me. Could be that the top plate is original and was assembled on a broken 1c camera, who knows, but still the whole camera would not be original then. Elnur asked and I gave my opinion.

And for peanuts sake, these are cameras with interchangeable lenses. If you know you have a fake camera, it is nice to put a 1-turn lens on it to make it look famous.
For example, Fed-1a #155. We all know it was sold WITHOUT lens. Suddenly this #155 has a separate entry here in the wiki WITH lens and it is not even mentioned that it is not the original lens.
Camera/lens combinations are mostly worth peanuts, only passports might give a hint.
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 05 2016 : 10:58:40 AM

We don't know how many Fed-Arsenal were made, nor in which conditions, nor exactly with which parts. But we have already decided that the s/n 00022 is a fake! If I had been a guy of Arsenal and found a complete 1c in a chest, I would have used it first!

And we forget too that normal rules of production cannot be applied to this period of recovery. For example, the two "1 turn" lenses that we find on the s/n 00127 and 00216 are curious. It seems that parts in the chests were not only from 1e-s.

Note that I have not said that this camera is genuine: for the moment, it's just impossible to know. But I discuss for peanuts: all the series is in the "contested or unauthentified" section!

Jacques.

Lenny Posted - Jun 04 2016 : 4:00:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.

A word more about that question of lenses.
By our wiki, and for the 1e-s, the s/n of lenses is always under the body's ones, with just one exception.

Generally, it's just the contrary.
That could lead too towards a lack of lenses for the 1e-s and the Fed-Arsenal.



The serials for 50/3.5 should be much lower because of FED S which were fitted with 50/2.0 Taylor-Hobson clones.

The lack of lenses for FED-Arsenal might be because they were not able to produce lenses.
That shows what a great factory FED was before the war.
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 04 2016 : 2:43:31 PM
A word more about that question of lenses.
By our wiki, and for the 1e-s, the s/n of lenses is always under the body's ones, with just one exception.

Generally, it's just the contrary.
That could lead too towards a lack of lenses for the 1e-s and the Fed-Arsenal.

Jacques.
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 04 2016 : 08:17:45 AM
Hi Bill and Vlad!

Yes, it's probably just to put a late 1e. It seems that a number of these Fed-Arsenal were made from parts coming from that series. Anyway, I don't see anything special about that one, except, of course, the plaque.

Something else. It seems that certain late Fed 1e don't have the regular 3,5/50mm Fed lens. I own one of them with a bayonet Sonnar 1,5/5cm cautiously adapted on a Fed rear crown. There is another one in the wiki. And a third one on a Fed-Arsenal (the s/n 00050) shown in the article. Aftermarket adaptation, or lack of lenses at that time? Could there be a correlation with the use of 1948 Industar 22 on most of these cameras?

Amitiés. Jacques.
Lenny Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 11:54:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.

we don't know which materials were available for these cameras. Certainly, the Arsenal guys used what they had. So, to declare this camera is a fake would be a bit short. For the moment, we just have to compile...



Thanks Jacques,

of course we can't be sure about the history of every single camera, but some things are very unlikely. Important is only how the Fed and Arsenal factories produced cameras.
Fed got an ordered plan to produce thousands of cameras every year. They didn't get an order to produce spare parts and they were not ordered to repair cameras. So keeping plates with 3 holes under the rewind knob makes less sense. To fulfill the plan and to use all produced parts they might have used up all 1c parts in the transition from 1c to 1d.
Arsenal might have had lots of 1e parts. They might have started production with these 1e parts. To produce #00022 so early with a different technic from 1c makes less sense when there were enough 1e parts available. And it seems Arsenal got an ordered plan too, to produce the first 100 cameras fast. This #00022 with 3 screws makes no sense and Arsenal didn't had mass production at that time. These FED-Arsenal were pretty much produced consecutive to their serial numbers.
In a workshop it's totally different, their job was to repair cameras and they likely used parts from other broken cameras.
nightphoto Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 9:47:22 PM
Hi Vlad,

Probably just a late FED-1e 'Berdsk'. The plate is probably just put on to personalize the camera (owners initials). The plaque may even have been cut from some other object with the monogram, such as a cigarette lighter or damaged piece of silver - vase, cigarette case, etc. Maybe was put in place to cover a hole by someone trying to add a slow speed dial, but unsuccessful. Probably not very relevant to the 'Berdsk' story or history. Can you read the monogram? "NIIS"?

Regards, Bill

Vlad Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 4:45:50 PM
from the article that Luiz posted in part one I am confused about this camera, it may be a bit offtopic for this thread as it's more for Berdsk thread but this Berdsk shield/logo FED-B with serial # in 180xxx range.. it goes against everything established so far... it only proves that you can't expect consistency or logic in Soviet production


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/362016_ris_6all.jpg

Jacques M. Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 3:05:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by elnur

Hi guys! Help to identificate. Fake or not?



About this s/n 00020, it's evident that it was not made with 1d or 1e parts: the 3 screws under the rewind button and the central screw, half hidden under the lensplate, denote a 1b or early 1c body. The absence of hole for the slow speeds in the upper plate is a confirmation.

That said, we don't know which materials were available for these cameras. Certainly, the Arsenal guys used what they had. So, to declare this camera is a fake would be a bit short. For the moment, we just have to compile...

Jacques.
Jacques M. Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 2:45:59 PM

I'm not Zoom...

First, all my thanks to Luiz! I just wonder (as a westie!) who is behind the author who has access to these ultra rare cameras... But other USSRphoto forumers are unknown...

These articles are exciting. I particularly like the proceeding of the author: collect information before any synthesis.

So, we have now some more Fed-Arsenal to examine, and one of them with the 1/1000th, as it seems. Some (many?) of them with a close relationship with the Fed 1e, by the "B" inside the cover.

We had guessed here that these cameras could have been made mainly from original Fed parts, and partly from Arsenal made ones. It's a confirmation. And that there were in fact two foreseen batches, if we follow the plate engravings (and the serial numbers).

We have now to wait for some new discoveries. No doubt they will happen, thanks to this thread! Anyway, it's absolutely not the moment to say which is, or not, genuine.

Something else: on the way "from Kharkov to Kharkhov", so, from 1941 to 1948, the real and certain history has always to be written...

Amitiés. Jacques.
Zoom Posted - Jun 03 2016 : 09:50:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny

Salut Jacques,
How do you think about the photolubitel articles Luiz posted above? Especially about FED-Arsenal.


I'm not Jacques ;), but near to the same conclusions are here: http://www.zenitcamera.com/articles/cameras/zenit-prehistory.html
(I repeat the link, that somehow went unnoticed.)
In addition, the points that have remained unsolved, are explained.
The whole story is not fully clarified yet. But only some details are left.
Lenny Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 6:11:22 PM
Salut Jacques,

how was your vacation, good you are back.

How do you think about the photolubitel articles Luiz posted above? Especially about FED-Arsenal. The VTSVS should be discussed in another thread.
Lenny Posted - May 23 2016 : 08:07:18 AM
Who can translate it, I understand only half.
levonsa Posted - May 23 2016 : 05:32:13 AM
Luiz!
Bravo!!! Thanks!
Luiz Paracampo Posted - May 22 2016 : 5:09:46 PM
Some interesting information could be found in those recente done pages.

http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=3

http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=5
two intersting articles on FED Arsenal

http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=2
and this one about VTSVS.

Lots of interesting information. Use Translator
Regards
LP

http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=6
http://photolubitel.com/index.php?route=module/kbm/article&kbm_article_id=7
Fotokor with variations and the TEMP Shutter (Compur type)
Lenny Posted - May 19 2016 : 3:07:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

Hello Alfa2,

In general I like your idea and was also thinking that it might be very helpful to have a link to this thread from the Wiki page. Also, I agree that the photos of my camera should not be on the WIKI page as my camera was obviously either a fake or had many non-original parts and so is not representative of the cameras we are discussing. But I think that photos of both models should be on the WIKI entry page, for reference, then with the link to this thread, a person can get a good idea of what's goining on. As well, the FED-Arsenal entry should be moved into the "Unidentified / Contested Authenticity" category.

However, if we go ahead and do this, how will we know that someone won't rewrite the entry, at will, to say the camera is for sure authentic, or for sure a fake, depending on their own opinion?

Regards, Bill



The bad thing is, users can see on the first page if an entry was edited, but they can't see what was edited.

For example, on fotoua, if a camera was added you can see the number of the collector in red for one day, besides that there is a number of the amount of cameras listed. Then you can put in days to see which cameras were added recently. Very easy to follow.

Here added text in the entry should be highlighted for 1 week so we all can see what has changed. Is that possible?
Lenny Posted - May 19 2016 : 2:21:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

It's a special section just for that purpose. Users can use the search feature to find it. Until there's a concrete documentation for at least one of them we can say any of these are 100% authentic. thus it goes into this section.



Some readers might not be familiar with the features of this website.

I can tell I searched for some minutes, others just might give up. It should be assumed that this website should have at least a little true information, and we have that in the text in the entry, but it can't be found in the Arsenal section. Very poor.
Lenny Posted - May 19 2016 : 2:15:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

It's a special section just for that purpose. Users can use the search feature to find it. Until there's a concrete documentation for at least one of them we can say any of these are 100% authentic. thus it goes into this section.



Then Red-Flag should be there too. Or did you see the passport Princelle was talking about?
Vlad Posted - May 19 2016 : 2:12:21 PM
It's a special section just for that purpose. Users can use the search feature to find it. Until there's a concrete documentation for at least one of them we can say any of these are 100% authentic. thus it goes into this section.
Lenny Posted - May 19 2016 : 2:09:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

I didn't move the entry into regular Wiki category because I'm of the same opinion as Bill. Even though I'm convinced that these cameras were made based on documentary evidence that Altix provided, I'm not convinced that these are the same cameras that were made and until there is concrete evidence of that I'd like to not display these in "authentic" section.



Then we should just make a note that the authenticity of each sample is not proven. Besides that I think Jacques camera might be original.

Readers who search for FED-Arsenal can't find them.
Vlad Posted - May 19 2016 : 2:00:32 PM
I'm ok with putting it into contested section.
Lenny Posted - May 19 2016 : 1:59:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

Lenny,

I have read all of the posts on this FED-Arsenal thread, but I don’t know if you have read them carefully as the documents were not from the FED archive, but rather the Arsenal archive.

It may be that you and others on the forum have come to the conclusion or opinion that the FED-Arsenal cameras that we know were made at FED-Arsenal just after the end of the War. However, there is no proof that the cameras we have seen are the ones that were envisioned to be made at FED-Arsenal. We probably have proof that officials thought that Arsenal could make FEDs and maybe even that the process was started to some extent, but that is different from knowing for sure that the cameras known are the ones (if there were any).

So far we only have eight examples and at least two of those seem to be fakes or at least made up of different, non-original parts. That is - 25% fake.

As well, the idea that if they were made for the military, cameras would not have passports is not very likely. All Soviet military technical equipment was required to have passports including that from the more secretive branches like the KGB. The idea that cameras were just given to workers (‘the milk maids’) is also unlikely as they would more likely have been sold, if possible, and would have also had passports if either gifts or sold. They would have had serial numbers and detailed passports.

I have originated and edited many Wiki entries but I have never deleted another authors’ opinion and substituted my own because I did not agree. So, as I asked you … why did you take away the text reflecting my opinion that there is uncertainty that these cameras are authentic examples? You are sure they are authentic and so my opinion does not matter?

Also, I have long wondered where you live and if you have a collection. Another subject, indeed, but your profile seems to be quite anonymous and uninformative on a personal level and we have not seen any photos of your collection.

Regards, Bill



Bill, of course I meant the FED-Arsenal archives.

I'm sure and I think others are sure too that FED-Arsenal cameras were made at Arsenal, otherwise Altix and Alzo wouldn't have stopped searching. If the cameras listed in the wiki are original or not is a totally different story, as in every other entry we can't be sure that all listed serials are original. But FED-Arsenal cameras are real and the entry should be moved to the Arsenal section, this is not a Phantasy camera.

I meant if cameras were made for the military passports were likely stored somewhere central at the military and were not together with the cameras and those passports could still be somewhere at the military.
It seems the camera of Davidenko's friend was given as a gift.

What is written in the wiki is anonymous, I'm not able to check who wrote what. I thought from reading the thread that all agreed that FED-Arsenal cameras were produced. Again, if those serials listed in the wiki are original or not is a totally different story, those are only known examples, original or not. It's the same with listed serials with the same number, they are not marked which is real or fake, but someone who reads the listing can make own conclusions. Also Vlad doesn't like to mark cameras as fake because we can't be 100% sure. But FED-Arsenal is not a Phantasy. Normally, I always try to keep what is written in the wiki, but not if there is false information. So do you think that no FED-Arsenal camera was made at Arsenal? There are other entries with fake cameras listed in my opinion but I don't mark them as fakes because we can't be 100% sure. And in this entry #00020 is marked with Zorki parts but not as a fake and I also changed nothing of that information which was already there.

I'm sure you heard about collectors who are well known and their cameras were stolen from their homes. Besides that, it shouldn't matter if posters are anonymous or not, only important is their contribution to the community. I posted photos already.
Vlad Posted - May 19 2016 : 1:59:44 PM
I didn't move the entry into regular Wiki category because I'm of the same opinion as Bill. Even though I'm convinced that these cameras were made based on documentary evidence that Altix provided, I'm not convinced that these are the same cameras that were made and until there is concrete evidence of that I'd like to not display these in "authentic" section.
nightphoto Posted - May 19 2016 : 1:57:16 PM
Hello Alfa2,

In general I like your idea and was also thinking that it might be very helpful to have a link to this thread from the Wiki page. Also, I agree that the photos of my camera should not be on the WIKI page as my camera was obviously either a fake or had many non-original parts and so is not representative of the cameras we are discussing. But I think that photos of both models should be on the WIKI entry page, for reference, then with the link to this thread, a person can get a good idea of what's goining on. As well, the FED-Arsenal entry should be moved into the "Unidentified / Contested Authenticity" category.

However, if we go ahead and do this, how will we know that someone won't rewrite the entry, at will, to say the camera is for sure authentic, or for sure a fake, depending on their own opinion?

Regards, Bill

Alfa2 Posted - May 19 2016 : 1:32:37 PM
This is interesting thing with FED-Arsenal. There is no proof FEDs were produced in Arsenal.

So I have another idea. We can put FED-Arsenal into Wiki with description that probably FEDs were made in Arsenal but there is no proof and link to this thread and without any photos because we don't know which camera is original, if some is original.
This is in order somebody may look for informations about FED-Arsenal and it is beter to read this thread than find nothing.
What do you think about that ?
nightphoto Posted - May 19 2016 : 12:29:43 PM
Lenny,

I have read all of the posts on this FED-Arsenal thread, but I don’t know if you have read them carefully as the documents were not from the FED archive, but rather the Arsenal archive.

It may be that you and others on the forum have come to the conclusion or opinion that the FED-Arsenal cameras that we know were made at FED-Arsenal just after the end of the War. However, there is no proof that the cameras we have seen are the ones that were envisioned to be made at FED-Arsenal. We probably have proof that officials thought that Arsenal could make FEDs and maybe even that the process was started to some extent, but that is different from knowing for sure that the cameras known are the ones (if there were any).

So far we only have eight examples and at least two of those seem to be fakes or at least made up of different, non-original parts. That is - 25% fake.

As well, the idea that if they were made for the military, cameras would not have passports is not very likely. All Soviet military technical equipment was required to have passports including that from the more secretive branches like the KGB. The idea that cameras were just given to workers (‘the milk maids’) is also unlikely as they would more likely have been sold, if possible, and would have also had passports if either gifts or sold. They would have had serial numbers and detailed passports.

I have originated and edited many Wiki entries but I have never deleted another authors’ opinion and substituted my own because I did not agree. So, as I asked you … why did you take away the text reflecting my opinion that there is uncertainty that these cameras are authentic examples? You are sure they are authentic and so my opinion does not matter?

Also, I have long wondered where you live and if you have a collection. Another subject, indeed, but your profile seems to be quite anonymous and uninformative on a personal level and we have not seen any photos of your collection.

Regards, Bill

Lenny Posted - May 18 2016 : 11:20:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

Hi Lenny,

As far as I know the authenticity of any of the FED-Arsenals known and in the WIKI is in question. They may all be fakes or only some may be. Until it is proven that actual FED cameras were made at Arsenal, not just intended to be made there as the documents shown on this thread indicate, we can't know if cameras were made there. An actual passport would have no doubt been made for any cameras made at Arsenal at that time. If a passport for a FED-Arsenal is found and shown to be authentic, then we may be more sure. But Lenny, you did seem to rewrite the entry taking away any text that cast doubt on the authenticity of these FED-Arsenals? Or, am I wrong?

Regards, Bill



Bill, didn't you read the last posts Altix wrote with documents from the FED archives? I'm sure that FED-Arsensal cameras were produced and in Vlad's post you can read the same. I also know that Jacques is of the same opinion and there are others. It is more known about FED-Arsenal than about Red-Flag because nobody saw the passport Princelle was talking about. So I don't know how you come to your conclusion that these cameras are still in doubt.

The first batch of FED-Arsenal might have gone to the military with all the passports, some of the others might have been given as gifts, I don't think that they needed to make passports for them.

But you are free to put #00022 into the wiki too. To me #00022 is a fake, same as your #00020 was. I'm not sure about #00216 because there is no hollow at the rewind clutch.

nightphoto Posted - May 18 2016 : 6:33:36 PM
Hi Lenny,

As far as I know the authenticity of any of the FED-Arsenals known and in the WIKI is in question. They may all be fakes or only some may be. Until it is proven that actual FED cameras were made at Arsenal, not just intended to be made there as the documents shown on this thread indicate, we can't know if cameras were made there. An actual passport would have no doubt been made for any cameras made at Arsenal at that time. If a passport for a FED-Arsenal is found and shown to be authentic, then we may be more sure. But Lenny, you did seem to rewrite the entry taking away any text that cast doubt on the authenticity of these FED-Arsenals? Or, am I wrong?

Regards, Bill

Lenny Posted - May 18 2016 : 5:37:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

Lenny,

Shouldn't you add this camera to the WIKI list with a note concerning authenticity? If this camera is not authentic then shouldn't it be compared with other examples known?

Regards, Bill



Hi Bill,

I'm not the wiki guru, I only offered to arrange wiki entries if they are messed up. Everybody should feel free to add to the wiki what seems to be important for them.

To me, it's not important to add photos of fakes, and this one with those 3 screws was a kind of easy case. Maybe it would be worth to check closely how well the top plate was engraved, but I think it won't help much in the future.

Before I copied many photos of fakes too and put them among the original ones in my base, with bad results, because they should be separated.

No, I wouldn't add fakes into the wiki, but if there are fakes already in the wiki I would mention what's wrong with them. But those who own those fakes might delete that the next days.

Our goal should be to teach everybody how to recognize fakes, like you did with describing the corners around the shoe on your #00020, because every single collector has to make his own decision to buy a camera which could be faked.
nightphoto Posted - May 18 2016 : 3:03:33 PM
Lenny,

Shouldn't you add this camera to the WIKI list with a note concerning authenticity? If this camera is not authentic then shouldn't it be compared with other examples known?

Regards, Bill

elnur Posted - May 18 2016 : 2:38:05 PM
Thx a lot Lenny )) its really so easy ))
Lenny Posted - May 18 2016 : 06:48:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by elnur

Hi guys! Help to identificate. Fake or not?



Hi Elnur,

this is very easy, 3 screws under the rewind knob.
elnur Posted - May 17 2016 : 1:14:10 PM
Hi guys! Help to identificate. Fake or not?


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_image.jpeg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_TD0alnuH9KE.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_4Qor-j3KKJc.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_shVRVC_rWOU.jpg



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_zJ7wZt68jZw.jpg

Alfa2 Posted - May 13 2016 : 04:52:32 AM
Thanks Jacques.
Jacques M. Posted - May 13 2016 : 03:25:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Alfa2


Is it known how many FED-Arsenal camera were produced ?



No. For the moment, we know seven of them, the last one having s/n 00222 (cf the wiki).
We don't know either if really 222 cameras were made... Probably we will discover other ones in a near future, thanks to this thread!

Amitiés. Jacques.
Alfa2 Posted - May 13 2016 : 01:29:33 AM

Is it known how many FED-Arsenal camera were produced ?

Lenny Posted - May 12 2016 : 08:26:43 AM
Thanks Zoom.


Amazing is that the first FED-Arsenal camera might have been produced in Kiev in January 1946
and at the same time the first Red-Flag was produced in Berdsk.
When the FED factory moved back from Berdsk to Kharkov in September 1946 Arsenal was still producing FED-Arsenal cameras for 1 more year, even when it was only in small quantities.
Zoom Posted - May 12 2016 : 07:17:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny

Interesting to me is that the old Arsenal plant number was #393 and the new KMZ plant number was also #393.
Wish Zoom could tell more about this coincidence, the timeline or if there was intention behind that.


It is simple: number 393 was free... Kiev Arsenal plant joined the plant number 235 NKV (aka Votkinsk Machine Building Plant) and ceased to exist as a separate entity.
See also http://www.zenitcamera.com/articles/cameras/zenit-prehistory.html (in Russian, sorry).
Lenny Posted - May 12 2016 : 02:33:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Zoom


http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/davidov-from-lupe.html (a brief plants' history and an information about numbers)



Interesting to me is that the old Arsenal plant number was #393 and the new KMZ plant number was also #393.
Wish Zoom could tell more about this coincidence, the timeline or if there was intention behind that.
Alfa2 Posted - May 11 2016 : 04:58:40 AM

Yes, and this "lovely" price - 8000 $

Jacques M. Posted - May 10 2016 : 3:11:10 PM
Another one, the s/n 00010:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1052016_Fed Arsenal 10 7.jpg

Lenny Posted - Jan 19 2016 : 2:45:13 PM
wow Altix.
You are the Man,
loved to read all this.
How do you think about that #00216 has no hollow? Could it be that the Arsenal maids knew that it wasn't needed, even before KMZ cowboys did. Ilyas's #00127 looks the same, at least the engravings on the top plate, wonder if there is no hollow either, wish Ilya could post another picture. Bill's #00020 looks definitely like a fake, good he sold it. So I need to live for some years more till all the archieves in Ukraine open and we will know more about Feds too.
Altix, thank you so much for all this

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