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[quote][i]Originally posted by nightphoto[/i]
[br]Ulrich,
 According to this same book by Sasaki, several 1947 and 1948 Kiev II cameras did have the same numbers (so the last numbers of the Kiev serial number, not the front two year numbers like "47xxx"), but not all. 
For example, here are the other numbers listed in the book of Kiev II cameras that were examined:

# 47058 .... engraved on back "107"
# 47160 .... engraved on back "160"
# 47335 .... engraved on back "335"
# 48768 .... engraved on back "768"
# 481244 ... engraved on back "1482"
# 481634 ... engraved on back "3976A"
# 481739 ... engraved on back "1739"
# 492926 ... engraved on back "24342" 
# 495652 ... engraved on back "5103"
# 501606 ... engraved on back "1105"

These numbers don't appear anywhere but on Kiev cameras, so a Soviet habit only, but why or what it means, I don't know. It seems that they are not totally unrelated to the body serial number, especially as they match in the early days, but as time went on they became different. Probably similar to lenses that were matched with cameras on early FEDs or VOOMPs, but as time went on the lens numbers became higher, either because more lenses were made than bodies or quality control made more lenses become rejected while bodies were not. But just a guess that it could be the same thing with this specific part or assembly.

Regards, Bill

[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
uwittehh	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 05:47:07 AM Good morning, how were the Kiev shutters numbered? I have opened the "Ciev-Kontax" and found the number 8026 engraved in the shutter. The camera is from 1954 so it can't be a number started from beginning of the production. Maybe they started every year counting the shutters? Or has it something to do with the machine where they were made? Or the worker? Ulrich http://fotos.cconin.de
7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
nightphoto	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 7:07:53 PM Ulrich, According to this same book by Sasaki, several 1947 and 1948 Kiev II cameras did have the same numbers (so the last numbers of the Kiev serial number, not the front two year numbers like "47xxx"), but not all. For example, here are the other numbers listed in the book of Kiev II cameras that were examined: # 47058 .... engraved on back "107" # 47160 .... engraved on back "160" # 47335 .... engraved on back "335" # 48768 .... engraved on back "768" # 481244 ... engraved on back "1482" # 481634 ... engraved on back "3976A" # 481739 ... engraved on back "1739" # 492926 ... engraved on back "24342" # 495652 ... engraved on back "5103" # 501606 ... engraved on back "1105" These numbers don't appear anywhere but on Kiev cameras, so a Soviet habit only, but why or what it means, I don't know. It seems that they are not totally unrelated to the body serial number, especially as they match in the early days, but as time went on they became different. Probably similar to lenses that were matched with cameras on early FEDs or VOOMPs, but as time went on the lens numbers became higher, either because more lenses were made than bodies or quality control made more lenses become rejected while bodies were not. But just a guess that it could be the same thing with this specific part or assembly. Regards, Bill
uwittehh	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 4:00:09 PM Bill, that's interesting. So the numbers did not match the camera number, as I thought. But what else do those numbers stand for? I think that there is no more information available after so much years... Ulrich http://fotos.cconin.de
nightphoto	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 3:41:57 PM Hello Ulrich and Michel, I believe Ulrich is correct. On both the Dresden and the Jena Contax there is no number scratched or engraved onto the area of the shutter cage just above the shutter curtains. Only on Kievs is the number scratched or engraved on that area. And, from the photos of the insides of the Kievs from 1947, 1948, 1949, and 1950 in the Sasaki book "Contax to Kiev", sometimes the numbers match and sometimes not. Specifically, in the two examples from 1949 and one from 1950, they do not match. Serial No. 492926 has "24342" engraved Serial No. 495652 has "5103" engraved Serial No. 501606 has "1105" engraved Of course those examples are on Kiev II cameras. But sounds to me like the Kiev III camera in question is a Kiev faked to be a Contax. Regards, Bill
uwittehh	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 2:10:41 PM Hi Michel, as I know only on real Contaxes the shutter number must be equal to the camera number. I've meant the number that is engraved on the shutter when you remove the back of the shutter, those numbers are only on Kievs :-) So it is a real Kiev that somebody has faked to a Contax. But he has only done half of the job, the B was painted over, but it shows GOST on the meter knob :-) I will add the numbers of my Kievs to the database soon. Ulrich http://fotos.cconin.de
Michel	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 1:47:30 PM Ulrich, I had a doubt : is the shutter s/n the same than the body s/n. So it's not. By the way, you could add the s/n of your C/K in the database of Kievs whose s/n begins by a "B"? As you know, these "B" and "A" remains a mystery� But�� is your Contax a Kiev or your Kiev a Contax ??? Michel.
uwittehh	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 07:52:35 AM Hello Michel, s/n of the body is 544131, and it has the "B" in the shoe. Ulrich http://fotos.cconin.de
Michel	Posted - Mar 22 2008 : 06:29:03 AM Hi Ulrich, What is the s/n of the body?

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