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Zorki-4 Reflex

Created by RCCCUK on 4/10/2009 5:55:27 AM
Last Edited by Vlad on 7/13/2009 7:22:01 PM  
Located in
Still Cameras > KGB - Spy Cameras

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad

USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 10 2009 :  12:41:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
David,

thanks for posting this camera. What made you believe it's a KGB spy camera though? Just questioning the choice of category for this entry.

Thanks!
Vlad.

Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1014 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 11 2009 :  02:13:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What amazes me more is why KMZ made such a camera, when they already had Zenits?

Best regards,
Juhani
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Apr 11 2009 :  02:22:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vlad,

You are absolutely right, I don't believe that this is a KGB camera. After some thought (probably not enough), I added to this section to join the Zorki-6 Reflex. Do you think I should move it to the section on 'Medical and Special Cameras'?

David.
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 11 2009 :  3:55:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello David

Those cameras always amazed me.
They are not a rangefinder camera with a reflex housing nor even a true reflex camera.
This particular modified Zorki4 is an integral system once the reflex system not removable.
The long optical tube does all the difference.
I believe that the system is composed with a relay lens, but I am not sure.
David, could you describe the optical system?
If not, I will ask some important questions:
Considering the system as is: -Can you see any image in the finder?
If any -At what distance it appears to be in focus?
Seeing an image it is normal, reversed or turn around?
Do you need an extra lens fitted to the system to see an image?
Do you have any information about the device to be coupled to it?
My best regards
LP
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  09:38:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Luiz,
I'll try to answer your questions.
I am afraid I cannot describe the optical system.
I can clearly see an image in the viewfinder. It is circular, upside-down, but not reversed. The image seems to be in sharp focus between 3 and 10 metres. It does not need any extra lenses to this sharp image.
I was told that the system was called 'Lenok S-257'. It came with a wooden box comtaining lens systems designated 'Lenok S-215', but these do not seen to have anything to do with the Zorki-4 Reflex (Lenok S-257).
Vlad has highlighted a particular problem when assessing Soviet photographic equipment. It is all too easy to suggest that unusual items were made for the KGB. This is especially so of sellers on eBay who want to attract buyers. I believe that many of these unusual items were manufactured for industrial or scientific use. This type of equipment may have been made to take photographs through walls, but in my opinion by the KGB, but because there was something hazardous on the other side.
David.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  10:01:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yea it seems to be a technical camera of sorts and I did miss Zorki-6 reflex being in KGB cameras, shouldn't be there either.. I'll move both of these to Medical and Special Cameras section...

I also see that the reflex housing has the KMZ logo - I guess this camera can also be placed under KMZ - Zorki section.. before I move them, would like to hear opinions where these 2 belong.

Vlad.
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  10:07:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vlad,

I think they should be in the Medical and Special Cameras section. Although the Zorki-4 Reflex has a KMZ logo and is certainly a Zorki, it is not really one of the conventional Zorki family.

David.
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  11:03:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey David
Thanks for the answer.
The image upside down is OK
You said it is NOT reversed - Right at Right; Left at Left Correct?
The focus is fixed at a medium high distence 3 to 10 metres
The round image covers a field similar to normal camera lenses?
The front lens of the set is scratch resistent?

-If those two questions have a positive ansnwer this is a process camera indicated to photograph dangerous chemical processes, high temperature reactions or even nuclear processes.
Certainly this camera is not built for medical or KGB purposes once it will be unable to take pictures through key holes!
Best regards LP
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  11:38:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
is that camera whith a shutter or not ?
(Either is that only the moving mirror do it?
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  11:48:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AFAIK these camera where fitted with something like that....(look at the screw mount on original device)


http://www.mars-cam.com/lenses/pinhole/widepinh.html

what's your opinion ?
Alain
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  1:40:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most, if not all cameras made by KMZ for KGB surveillance use would not include the KMZ logo anywhere on it (although will still have a serial number ... often). But police cameras could have factory logos on them. But this is probably for scientific use, so probably that category in my opinion. Maybe for a submarine periscope since there was a Soviet submarine called "Lenok".

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  5:07:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
hmm.. interesting theory Bill..

I've moved both these cameras to Medical and Special Cameras category.
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 12 2009 :  9:05:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Allain Bill and Vlad
The camera has shutter of course. It is the normal shutter 1 to 1/1000 + B normally found on Zorki 4 The system was built because this unit is far more reliable than Zenits or other reflex type cameras.
Nothing to do with pin hole cameras for wall observing.
Hypotesis on submarine....could be but not really with a great embasemant once the camera is very large and these devices must be compact. further more the image is seen upside down what is a real trouble when using it.
The technical use in dangerous situations is a more probable hypotesis.
Regards LP
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Apr 14 2009 :  03:30:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many thanks to all of you for your responses. It is discussions like these that help us all to figure out the intended uses for some of the more unusual items that we find.
A few more facts:
The focal length of the lens appears to be in the region of 180-200 mm.
The diameter of the image at the focal plane is 34 mm, so it does not produce a full frame image.
The front of the les barrel has two different possibilities for fixing additional items (mounts, tubes or lenses perhaps). There is an outer threaded part and an inner protruding part that has a pin at the top and a hole at the bottom.
There is a second serial number on the front-plate of the camera,behind the reflex housing: 633024.

David.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Apr 16 2009 :  07:19:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill...you wrote above message about submarine...
so i dig something interesting in my PC files : 2 pictures from a device to set a 39mm screw mount camera on submarine bodies (it came from Crimea harbour) it was said this device adapted with Leningrad camera ...just for info
unfortunatly , I did not buy it at the moment !


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/submarine device leningrad 1.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/submarine device leningrad 2.jpg

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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 16 2009 :  7:21:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This fotopristavka is used on trench positions it has military use.
The colour paint indicates -for army use. Not for marine use and less yet for submarine.
Regards LP
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