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 About Fed-Zorkis...once more!
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Apr 24 2010 :  11:08:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi!
I have recently received my second 1948 Fed-Zorki.
It has the 1/500th of a second, and when the baseplate is removed, the paint of the shutter cage is not bright black, but like the zorkies (crisp?). Serial number of the camera: 02373.

My other Fed-Zorki, the 03278, has the 1/1000th and a black bright paint.

On looking on the net, all the 1948 Fed-Zorkies seem to have the same characteristics: bright paint and 1/1000th, or crisp paint and 1/500th. But is it a general rule?

And if we look at the wiki, it seems that the first Fed-Zorkies always have the 1/1000th (idem for the Fed-KMZ). Does it mean that KMZ first used the parts from Fed, and among these parts, there were mainly or only shutters of Fed S?

In that case, Fed would have made probably several thousand S shutters more than I thought (c.13000). And the real first shutters made by KMZ would be these 1/500th with crisp paint...

But I don't really know if I think "straight"!

Amitiés. Jacques.



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 002.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 004.jpg


Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Apr 24 2010 :  2:05:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree with that and it is a very interesting and astute observation, Jacques. Probably when FED was returned from Berdsk after the war, the FED-S shutter cages were given to Krasnogorsk to start making FEDs with. Or maybe these shutter cages were in storage during the war somewhere besides Berdsk and then given to KMZ.

Regards, Bill

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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - May 03 2010 :  07:52:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Thanks Bill!

I would find interesting if those who have a Fed-Zorki check their camera and tell if these hypothesis are right:
-1/500th sutter with a "crisp" black paint,
-1/1000th shutter with a bright black paint.

Thanks if you can. (and even if you cannot!)

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 03 2010 :  09:54:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thought that I had lost mine in a pile of Kiev-fives and Drougs, but foud it hiding behind Seagull 205's. Maybe I should do something like reorganizing...

1948 #2593 1/500 and semiglossy black, not at all as "bad paint" as in pic above

Falls between Jacques' two cameras timewise also!

Best regards,
Juhani
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 03 2010 :  3:36:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mine with 1/1000 of a second has also the FED style bright paint on the bottom. Built in 1948, serial number 2913.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Oct 21 2010 :  07:42:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello!

My 1949 Fed-Zorki, serial # 05159 has the 1/500th and crisp paint.

So, for the moment, it seems we can confirm the initial hypothesis: Fed-Zorki with 1/1000th have the shutter cage with bright paint. And those with 1/500th have crisp paint: what Junani calls "bad paint"

Amitiés. Jacques.

Edited by - Jacques M. on Oct 21 2010 07:56:29 AM
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Jan 31 2011 :  3:15:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

here are my two pense :



First camera is FED-Zorki Nr.02198 with 1/500, the second one is FED-Zorki Nr.03454 with 1/1000. Both from 1948.



Regards, Alexander
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 01 2011 :  01:27:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi Alexander,
When you say that the "first" has the 1/500th of the second, is it the upper or the lower on your picture?

thanks! Jacques.
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Feb 01 2011 :  04:59:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Jacques,
the 1/500th is upper camera on the picture.

Regards, Alexander
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 01 2011 :  05:22:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

So, that's an interesting exception to the rule about paint!
It's the first Fed-Zorki I see with 1/1000th shutter and "crisp" paint.

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  08:30:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Jacques,

I can only confirm, that the shutter cage of my Fed-KMZ #00070 is painted in bright black paint. Luckely I have found a picture of Alain's Fed-KMZ #00063 in my archives, so the situation with cage's painting is the same.

Your theory (or even discovery?) will force me to open the bottom plates of all my Fed-Zorki cameras either...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/222011_Fed-KMZ_00070_shutter_cage.jpg

Best Regards,
Aidas



Edited by - AidasCams on Feb 02 2011 08:32:47 AM
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  09:07:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Aidas!
It's only a theory!
Anyway, it could not be a rule: the first Fed-Zorki (and Fed-KMZ) were made of Fed shutter parts. So, it would not be so astonishing to have bright paint for early Fed-Zorki with 1/500th shutters. I remember too Alain's Fed-KMZ I had in my hands (but it had 1/1000th shutters. Not yours?)

Which is unusual is to find a 1/1000th shutter with crisp paint. Till now, I supposed KMZ had used Fed S shutters (bright paint) up to the end. Probably I am wrong, and they could have made some by themselves.

So, I wait for your openings!
And congrats for this rarest camera...

Amitiés. Jacques.

Edited by - Jacques M. on Feb 02 2011 09:16:03 AM
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  09:19:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
#02593 from 1948 and 1/500 smooth = half-glossy paint.

Best regards,
Juhani
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  09:41:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jacques,

all these very few known Fed-KMZ cameras have 1/1000s indeed.
Your theory about different paintings of the shutter cage is very interesting and meaningful indeed. Let's imagine 2 wooden boxes crowded with shutters for Fed-Zorki cameras . Shutters with 1/1000s in one box and shutters with 1/500s in another one. 2 different productional batches could be painted in different ways, right? I would say that shutters with 1/1000s (bright) and 1/500s (crisp) could be a rule, though knowing that all rules have exceptions unfortunately .

Now about FED/KMZ origins. I'm almost sure, that all shutters of Zorki cameras up to s/n #7000-#8000 have FED's origins indeed. My Zorki #06768 comes with shutter, indentical to regular Fed-Zorki, whereas my another type-A Zorki #09314 comes with regular shutter of KMZ origin already.

Website's system doesn't allow me to place a fragment of regular KMZ shutter unfortunately...

Best Regards,
Aidas

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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  09:45:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan

#02593 from 1948 and 1/500 smooth = half-glossy paint.

Best regards,
Juhani



Hi Juhani,

Your Fed-Zorki is an unique camera, since beeing EXCEPTION TO THE RULE!

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 02 2011 :  09:51:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
seems that my 2nd try was successful ...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/222011_zorki_09314_shutter.jpg

Best Regards,
Aidas

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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 04 2011 :  01:48:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

the results of my openings below:

Fed-Zorki 1948 #01604 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #02677 (1/500s) - crisp paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #02767 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #03148 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1949 #04813 (1/500s) - bright paint; !!!
Fed-Zorki 1949 #05550 (1/500s) - crisp paint.

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 04 2011 :  04:35:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
more results from Alexey's shelf:

Fed-Zorki 1948 #01537 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #03827 (1/500s) - crisp paint;
Fed-Zorki 1949 #05042 (1/500s) - crisp paint.

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2011 :  05:27:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Aidas!

All that is most interesting. It seems there are only hypothesis!
- for the 1/500th shutters: the first ones come from Fed, so with bright paint. Very early, KMZ are short with these shutters and must make them by themselves (crisp paint). No problem: there will be after several hundred of thousands cameras which will use that same shutter. And no real problem if there are some rare "bright paint" later: KMZ will have found some spare ones in their cupboards!
- for the 1/1000th shutters: I thought KMZ used all they have from Fed (always bright paint) and didn't make any: no other 1/1000th of that kind later. But the Alexander's camera -serial # 3454, 1/1000th and crisp paint- could show that KMZ did make such shutters. Of course, it would be interesting to know if there are others.

All that to sum up my ideas.

Amitiés. Jacques.

Edited by - Jacques M. on Feb 04 2011 08:28:48 AM
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Feb 05 2011 :  02:32:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just to add confirmation to previous submissions:

FED-Zorki 1948 #02053 (1/1000s) - bright paint
FED-Zorki 1948 #02757 (1/1000s) - bright paint

It would certainly appear that the 1/1000s versions with crisp paint are the rarer version.


David.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 06 2011 :  1:09:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One more from Finland (not mine):

1949
Serial 05125
Speeds to 1/500
Wrinkled paint

Best regards,
Juhani
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