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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 09:25:12 AM
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Hello,
As we know, early Kievs II and III come from Dresden parts and from machine tools made at Jena and sent to Kiev in 1947.
The early Kiev II are rare, but their number (some tens known in 1947 and 1948) allows to make some comparisons with the wartime Contaxes.
It is more difficult for early Kievs III which are even rarer: some cameras only known in 1947-1948, perhaps some tens in 1949.
I own a Contax M series (made in 1942 or 1943) and a 1949 Kiev III. And together we could try to do something which looks like what we have already done in the thread "Kiev II forerunners"...
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2782011_Contax III-Kiev III 1949 002.JPG
No real difference concerning the general "look". The chrome is poor and rough on the Contax, exactly like on my Contax II O series. Wartime productions... The weight is the same: 745 g. without the lens. About the lenses, the Sonnar on the Contax is not original (certainly too late), and the ZK Zorki is a correct rigid one.
Soon detailed pictures of my two ones.
If you have Kiev III of the late forties...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Aug 27 2011 10:11:02 AM |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
821 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 4:23:05 PM
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Jacques,
I owned (I don't know why I sold it away - there was Marine-Sonnar engraved with MF and an additional number on it...) an Contax II mit O serial number too. First thing that I saw was the very rough chrome and engraving. Looks a bit like the later Kievs :-)
What is the serial number of your rigid ZK? It looks like 4903695. One of my Kiev II from 1949 has a rigid ZK with serial 4903627. So it seems to be very close.
By the way... where the hell do you find a 1949 KIEV III in that stunning condition? :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 02:41:35 AM
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Jacques,
my Kiev-III from 1948 you have already seen in thread "Just arrived...", and I have one more Kiev-II from 1949 (s/n 495575) with a collapsible Zorki ZK (s/n 4900415). I cannot compare them with Contax (I have no one  ), but I can post here any photos of my cameras, let me know which  .
Regards, Alexander |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 03:40:25 AM
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Ulrich and Alexander,
Thanks for your answers!
I found this 1949 Kiev III on eBay, at a bargain price. I did not hesitate: I jumped on it...
I confirm the serial number of the lens, Ulrich: 4903695. What is the serial number of the Kiev II on which your '3627 is mounted?
Alexander: it would be great you post detailed pictures of your 1948 Kiev III. And it is the first time I see a 1948 Kiev III "A" numbered! This afternoon (French hour), I will post some pictures of the top plates, including lightmeter.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Aug 28 2011 09:52:17 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 07:25:30 AM
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First, a general view of the tops of the two cameras.
Two light differences:
- the meter scale is not exactly the same,
- there is a reinforced stamped spot round the counter on the Contax.
The other interesting details are the same: arrow with feather, moulding of the lightmeter window, buttons, groove on the distance wheel...
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2882011_Contax III-Kiev III 1949 005.JPG
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Aug 28 2011 09:51:26 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 07:40:45 AM
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Then two others pictures of the "tower" like button, which includes the rewinding, the sensibility of the film and the regulation of the couple speed/diaphragm. So, three in one!
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2882011_Contax III-Kiev III 1949 007.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2882011_Contax III-Kiev III 1949 008.JPG
The Contax is the first (= higher).
Absolutely no difference.
It is interesting to know that this sensibility (9-33 10° DIN) was used only from the last M series Contax, so 1942. So, the lightmeter of the 1949 Kiev certainly comes from Dresden parts. Anyway, it was not made at Kiev!
As for the "3" with flat top, it comes from Dresden too. My 1958 KuïB III has round 3s on that button. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Aug 28 2011 08:23:23 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 08:09:24 AM
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Now, a view of the baseplates.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2882011_Contax III-Kiev III 1949 009.JPG
The disconnecting button has a Jena look (concentric circles) on the Kiev. As for the Contax, the button is a normal Dresden one, but the triangular shoe is missing, just like on my Contax II O series. It seems that Zeiss had some problems with this moulded part... It is known that they put any of the older triangular remaining parts they have, includind those coming from Contax I... |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 09:09:32 AM
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Very last thing: the stamped spot round the counter (on the Contax 3).
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2882011_Compl. Kiev II 49 - Contax IIIM 002.JPG
A very interesting question, as this reinforcement exists on Contax III only. Not on Contax II, Jena Contaxes, Kievs...
That means that the top plate of this 1949 Kiev III cannot have been made at Dresden.
So, the meter and the tower like button only seem coming from Dresden. All the rest of the camera can have been made at Jena, or perhaps at Kiev. Impossible to be more precise, as the two "pure" Jena details (black circle under selftimer, number of circles on the square part of the shoe) are absent here. And we don't have any Jena Contax III to compare...
But it is known that an electrician engineer, specialised in Contax III, was left at Jena well after the machine tools were sent to Kiev. It would explain why it is more or less admitted that Kiev III were really made at Kiev only from 1952.
Now, I hope that Alexander will go on the thread with pictures of his 1948 Kiev III. Perhaps they will solve some questions?
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Aug 28 2011 09:50:09 AM |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 10:32:50 AM
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Well Jacques,
thank you for the photos and your researches! I have very attentively examined my Kiev-III 1948 and I can only confirm all you have wrote EXCEPT the round top "3" on the tower button. I have it really "round"!
I have only two possible explanation of this:
1) it could be replaced later by repair. It seems for me to be more plausible.
2) it could be already the new "Kiev-design".
I will open the "tower" and will try to check, what it really was.
Some photos come soon as well...
Regards, Alexander |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 10:54:15 AM
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By the way,
a very interesting article "KIEV: The Unknown from the East" was published in a magazine "Photo Deal" II/2011. It has a lot of photos and compares the Kiev and Contax cameras. I can scan it and post here, let me know.
P.S. It is German only, sorry.
Regards, Alexander |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
821 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 10:59:53 AM
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Alexander,
that would be nice if you can post the article here.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 3:34:35 PM
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Let me know when interesting articles will be in French...
To be more serious, I think like you that your 1948 Kiev III could have been repaired, Alexander.
The "tower" shows a DIN meter. So, a German production. And the scale could be a Kiev of the fifties: it looks like my 1958 Kiev IIIa (always working fine!) but neither my Contax M, nor my Kiev 1949.
But there can be other explanations too... Eager to see your pictures.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2011 : 4:40:07 PM
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Well,
I have done some photos of my Kiev-III 1948 and tried to show on them the same parts as on the photos of Jacques.
The first four pictures are the same without any differences:
But the last one made me worried. You see on it "round" 33 a little bit shifted to the right:
... and I opened the "tower". For the comparison I opened the "tower" on my Kiev-III 1952 too:
Kiev-III 1948 - the stopper is thick
Kiev-III 1952 - the stopper is thin
As you see on pictures, the stopper on Kiev-III 1948 is thicker and the ring is a little curved.
What is it? A home made part or something similar... The ring with stopper on Kiev-1952 seems to be made more professional.
Regards, Alexander |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
821 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Aug 30 2011 : 4:58:01 PM
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Alexander,
at first, thank you for scanning the article. I know Fred Knöferl from some E-Mails. The article is interesting but does not tell me new things that I knew before. But it is nice to read.
When I take a look at the pictures of your KIEV I can see that there are some parts that maybe are from later Kievs. The film counter hat no flat "3", the focus wheel has no groove in it, the stand foot looks as it is from a later Kiev (compare it to this picture, the left one is from my Kiev of 1950, the right one from 1953. The one from 1950 is deeper inside.
 .
About the Tower scale stopper I don't know if it must be smaller or wider. Is the selftimer lever of smaller or wider type? See
this is the smaller type as seen on my 1950 and both of my 1949 Kievs. And what about the arrow of the selftimer?
Left one is the earlier type, it has smaller feathers.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
821 Posts
My Collection
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Robert Tyss
robtyss
Germany
21 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 04:01:53 AM
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hi Ulrich
A powerful document, realy intresting.
robtyss
or
the1xt
the frist cross trail |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 10:29:00 AM
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Ha! All that is most interesting!
In fact, this Kiev III is much more a Jena/Kiev than a Dresden one if we consider:
- the feather of the tower,
- the view counter, without the reinforcement of the Dresden Contax III,
- the "3"s, everywhere with a round top,
- the release button for rewinding...
And as for the lack of groove on the focus wheel, some Kiev 1947 lack it too...
For me, the most interesting is the letter A, not a square A, in fact (n'est-ce-pas, Michel!  ) I never saw such a letter before the '50s...
So, if we guessed that this camera was made from Jena parts?
Let me try a tale to see if that works...
We are in 1948. Mr A. is told that Arsenal is beginning to make a russified Contax III. He decides to buy one. At the factory, an engineer tells him that this camera is made in very small numbers with rare parts coming principally from Jena, including the lightmeter. He buys one.
All is perfect several years. Then, in the early '50s, the cell stops working. Mr A, always in love with his Kiev, sends it to Arsenal. There, of course, they don't have original Jena parts any more, so they put an "A" cell. No problem for the tower, as the sensibility is the same. Of course, they engrave an A to show the repair.
Fifty years later, Alexander receives this very camera, and he posts on USSRphoto.
Does that sound possible? 
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Sep 01 2011 11:07:01 AM |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 2:36:36 PM
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Thank you for the story, Jacques !
It sounds really funny, but possible.
It seems to me, that I really need to disassemle my Kiev to check, WHAT IT IS or, may be, WHAT IT WAS 
Regards, Alexander |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 2:41:13 PM
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Ulrich,
thank you very much for the document! It is really interesting, I have not seen it before.
Regards, Alexander |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2011 : 09:49:52 AM
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The pictures of the same part...
My three early Kievs II (1949 and 2x1950) have the same button. In fact, exactly the same as the Contax O series:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/292011_arrows-feathers 010.JPG
The big surprise comes from my 1949 Contax III. The general drawing and the size are the same as the Jena Contaxes ones, but it has four feathers only:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/292011_arrows-feathers 008.JPG
The last picture for my 1958 Kiev III:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/292011_arrows-feathers 009.JPG
What to conclude? Nothing for the moment!
Some more pictures would be of great use to complement the collection...
One can too imagine that in those years, Arsenal used what they find: spare parts coming from Germany, new parts made by themselves or ordered outside... All is open!
Amitiés. Jacques.
PS: thanks once more, Ulrich, for your very important articles you sent me a while ago. Alas, in German...
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Sep 02 2011 10:11:00 AM |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2013 : 11:51:12 AM
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Dear all,
I decided to summarize the discussion of this thread. Here is a picture of different Kiev III light-meter scales. One can distinguish four types of them whereas, the scales of the first two types and the scales of the last two types are very similar to each other. The very first column shows markings on the Dresden Contaxes. They are almost identical to markings on Kievs from the first Kiev's column. These are very early Kievs and their lightmeters were most probably assembled by using parts from Dresden. The markings on the other early Kievs III are different and probably were introduced in Jena.
It seems that in Jena some attempts to build Contax III were made and if you look at the famous LIFE photo of a man with Kievs you will see Kievs III there as well. But as far as I know, Saalfeld people have problems with light meters. At least up to 1946 they had problems with the selenium cells (probably some of them were brought from Dresden?). Hence not much Jena Contaxes III were produced officially (still they assemble some amount for the black market).
All this Kiev story is very confusing.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/31102013_Exponometr.jpg
Concerning the image, with red I marked Kievs IIIa and some strange Kievs or Kievs not in the original state I marked with the question mark. Hope this picture could be useful.
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2013 : 11:56:08 AM
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Ups, sorry. I posted in the wrong thread  But still the information could be useful |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 10:06:29 AM
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Dear all,
Alexey, your Kiev is included in the list. I've found one more interesting thing looking into the instruction manual of Contax II and III. Look at this picture:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1112013_ib23.jpg
This image is quite strange. The scale belongs to the 4th and 5th column of my table. But I did not see any of this kind on Dresden Contax III. I assume, that the camera presented on the photos is a pre-war prototype with the light-meter assembled in Jena in their research facility. In Dresden the scale and hence the whole light-meter was adopted to their production line. However, after the war the constructors in Jena used their own blueprints of light-meter with this "Jena-type of the scale" which is quite common on Kievs. Probably some Kievs III from 1952 were equipped with Dresden parts. Sounds reasonable to me. One note, I think that differences in scales are not purely design differences. The structure of light meters (e.g. of galvanometer) could be different for Jena and Dresden Contaxes. This results into different gauge of the scales.
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 11:45:57 AM
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Most interesting!
Are the different sensibilities of the lightmeter (10 to 33 DIN) too in relationship with different scales?
It seems (but I have not exactly checked) that on a same year of Kiev III (let us say, for example 1952), we can find 10 DIN lightmeters and 33 ones, as if Arsenal had received all that in a box and use the lightmeters just as they come...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 1:08:37 PM
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Dear Jacques,
I did not really understand what is the difference between 10 and 33 DIN light-meters (sorry, probably missed the information from the tread). I am waiting my Kiev III from the first official batch of 1952 (52472). If I get it I will inspect it carefully.
What I find rather confusing, is the A-letter on Alexanders Kiev III of 1948. From my table it appears that this letter appeared systematically on 52 Kievs III with 6 digit numbers. Some early exceptions like 1948 or 1951 Kievs III bear quite different type of this letter engraving. What do you think if it stands for Attrappe (dummy)? It is quite ridiculous idea since I would expect more likely V for Versuch (prototype).
Why some early Kievs bear this letter and some don't? Lettered Kievs were marked with A according to the GOST standards but the DIN scale has been used (strange, isn't it?)? Lettered Kievs were sent to Soviet Union and without A-prefix remained in Germany? This could be a good explanation. I definitely know that my Kiev III (without A) that I bought in Germany was in Germany all the time since fifties. Do you know the prehistory of your cameras without (with) these letters?
Sorry, my posts could look like a flood, but I think that it worth to write down some questions and hypotheses since this is a good way to look on the problem from all possible sides and probably to find the answer. |
Edited by - altix on Nov 01 2013 5:38:30 PM |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 3:27:27 PM
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altix,
you are absolutely right. I have disassembled the Kamera, it was really from 1952. That was my bad luck to buy it some years ago .
Regards, Alexander |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 4:17:16 PM
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Sorry Altix, my writing was faulty.
To be more clear...
The Contaxes III lightmeters were made with four different sensibility of films:
- 6-24/10° DIN,
- 9-27/10° DIN, from K series,
- 9-33/10° DIN, changed during the M series,
- 17-35/10° Steiner for export models,
according to Kuc's book. The top sensibility (24 to 35) can be seen on the window of the turret.
Perhaps the light meter scales must change accordingly? But on my two cameras showed at the beginning of the thread, the scales are different whereas the maxi sensibility (33) is the same...
I already tried to find an answer to this question. But the detailed pictures of Contax III/Kiev III are not so common...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Nov 01 2013 4:29:45 PM |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 4:49:23 PM
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About the Saalfeld production, I only find 7 Contax Jena III produced in my datas, some of them with the double Kiev + Contax numbers...
I think too that Dresden parts were used to make them. Kucs insists on the difficulty to produce the electronic parts at Saalfeld. It explains why the real production of Kiev III only became in 1951-52...
Jacques. |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 5:07:51 PM
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Dear AlexanderK,
you mean that your Kiev is fake? It is interesting to hear your arguments why this is 1952 Kiev. I do not think that it's fake.
I think that indeed no one was able to produce Kiev III before 1952 in Kyiv. The guy from Dresden who was involved in light-meter production was left after Zeiss factory dismantle in Jena. According to Werner Widders recollections, people from Jena were able to assemble light-meters only starting from 1948. From this fact it follows that:
1. Very few Contaxes III were assembled in Jena prior 1948 (probably as prototypes)
2. Some Contaxes III were produced starting from 1948 (just my guess)
3. Some "Kievs III" were produced starting from 1948 until 1952 in Jena (could be, that due to the order of SMAD, Kievs III were assembled instead of Contax III. Again my guess)
4. Some Kievs III and Contaxes III were assembled for German black market.
5. Official production of Kiev III was started in 1952 in Kiev.
I have very simple explanation why Kiev III appeared before the official production with the light-meters from 1952. (I suspect that that was your, Alexander, doubt about the originality of your 1948 Kiev. Correct me if i'm wrong). In Dresden period everyone was able upgrade Contax II to Contax III by sending the camera on the factory and paying some money. Very probable that the same practice was adopted in Jena or Kiev. Somebody who possessed 1948 Kiev II wished to upgrade it to Kiev III in 1952 so he went to Arsenal and made the upgrade. To mark properly this modification the cold shoe got the letter A as the standard Kiev III from 1952.
I have the next set of questions:
1. Kievs 1947 have 5 digit serial number; Kievs 1948-1951 have 6 digit numbers. That's fine. Suddenly Kievs III of 1952 got again 5 digit serial number. Why? People did not expect to produce more than 999 cameras?
2.With growing number of Kiev III in 1952 the serial number became 6 digit. The reason to do this is clear. My data shows that with the switch from 5-digit number to 6-digit number in front of the serial number appears "A". What happened?
3. The serial number engraving was quite uniform during 1950-1951. Suddenly the deviations in fonts appear in 1952 as well as the changes in the way how it was engraved and in the filling with paint (many of serial numbers do not contain this filling at all) New engraving machines on the factory? New personel? Another place of production (not the Arsenal factory)?
Some pictures:
5 digit Kiev III 1952. (Jn www.sovietcams.com I found another 5 digit Kiev III)
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1112013_Kiev1952.jpg
6 digit Kiev III 1952 with quite standard A-prefix:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1112013_kiev-3a_upiter-8_up.jpg
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Edited by - altix on Nov 01 2013 5:37:18 PM |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 5:16:05 PM
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Oh, thank you Jacques for explanations.
I will try to analyze my Kiev III from 1952. It is from the first 500 pieces produced that year and could shed light on some questions. I expect I will get it tomorrow. It has 5 digits in serial, Jena-like arrow on rewind knob and Dresden-like scale of the light-meter.
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Edited by - altix on Nov 01 2013 6:34:49 PM |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 6:30:21 PM
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Well, altix,
due to your questions and explanations I would start now the second round of my investigations.
I am not sure, that my Kiev 480075 is a fake (I hope it is not ). One of my ideas is, that this camera was returned to Arsenal for repairment and some parts of the camera were replaced. Why has this Kiev got an 'A' to the number? May be because it was already a standard for the s/n of Kievs III at this time.
I would be very thankful, if you can help me to find out eventually, what camera I really have. It seems to me, you have much more experience with Kiev cameras.
Regards, Alexander |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 6:42:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AlexanderK
It seems to me, you have much more experience with Kiev cameras.
Dear Alexander, it is not true. But I would be very excited if you could share with me for inspection some pictures of your Kiev. As the proverb says, two heads are better than one In order to clarify some strange facts about Kiev I think I need to visit the Arsenal museum and its archive.
with best regards, altix |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 04:46:59 AM
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About your 1948 Kiev III, the repair later was my guess when you showed it for the first time, Alexander. It can be an upgrading too: I had not thought of that. And with parts which can have been made in three places, and assembled in two ones (officially!), things are not simple...
It's why I am really very interested by Altix's study concerning the screen of the light meters: it is a parameter more which can help us to understand a bit more what happened in those days.
For me, the 1945-1950 period is the most interesting. Not only about Contax/Kiev history, but too concerning Fed... And Ikonta/Moskva's!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 3:51:05 PM
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I received today the early Kiev III with the serial 52472. Unfortunately the ribbons are broken so it needs to be overhauled. One more example that perfect cosmetic condition indicates some inner defect.
I would like to concentrate on the light-meter of this Kiev. It's completely from Dresden! This verifies my guess that Kievs with the scales from the second column of my table have Dresden light-meter.
Here is the bottom of the light-meter housing:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_7.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_8.jpg
D stands most probably for Deutschland (Germany). Makes sence since it is calibrated to DIN. 33 denotes the maximal sensitivity. R - denotes resistance?
Selenium cell is covered with some plastic that is untypical for Kievs
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_6.jpg
Back side of the cell. All wires seems to be connected to the external contacts mechanically (!!!) and not brazed.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_5.jpg
I did not succeed to look at the galvanometer since the housing was sealed and I was afraid to break the glass.
Concerning the "tower" knob. Look at this detail:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_1.jpg
It was surely modified to fit the other tower details. Some number:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_2.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_3.jpg
Some more details:
The arrow on the self-timer has 5 feathers like on Kiev 1958. Bayonet ring bears comas not dots but 3 is already with round top. Shutter has some cosmetic features that distinguish it from later shutter I've seen (e.g. Kiev 1956). The rewind knob mounting to the housing is different from standard Kiev III way of mounting. Here are the number on the shutter:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2112013_4.jpg
Bayonet mount has very good finish that is much better than of later Kiev models. It bears the number 1735 and the letter B. The winding knob has very shiny look and differs slightly from the other chromed parts (e.g. rewind knob). And of course the are no traces of Contax name on the front plate.
It would be interesting to compare these pictures of the light-meter with the corresponding pictures of the early Kievs III. |
Edited by - altix on Nov 02 2013 7:44:50 PM |
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SteveA
United Kingdom
129 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2013 : 04:44:15 AM
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Hi, I see your picture of the selenium cell wrapped in cellophane - this will be a Zeiss on as I have just stripped a 1938 Contax 3, which had the identical cell. The cell was continued post-war, as I was able to fit a better cell from a Super Ikonta into it. Basically, there is a brass frame, which is soldered to the camera, then the selenium cell is simply slotted into the back of this frame and held in place by the earth spring and the glass diffuser that fits to the front of the cell. I beleive the cellophane was an effort to seal the cell, preventing oxidisation and loss of sensitivity. My Contax cell was stamped in ink 'FEB 1938' to show date of manufacture. The later,Kiev manufactured cells are less easy to replace as the wire is soldered direct to the selenium cell itself.
Cheers,
Steve |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2013 : 10:04:14 AM
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Hello,
I have just dismounted the covers of my Contax III M series (wartime) and of my 1949 Kiev to know what is hidden inside.
No problem on the Kiev. There are several inscriptions on the part behind the diffuser: E....cell; 21 Jan 1939 and 858 which is handly written. So, made in january 1939, and German.
The surprise comes from the Contax. At the reverse of this same part: F & P ; 17 Aug 1954. So, the Contax was repaired at this date.
There is a plastic wrapping on the two.
All being the same concerning sensitivity, I wonder why there are two different scales under the screen...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 04:10:47 AM
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Two more things:
- the stopper inside the turret is thin on the two cameras,
- after dismounting and remounting the Kiev, I realize the cell works... In fact, the needle reacts perfectly to the light, but it cannot be regulated by the speed button of the turret: probably a question of contact.
This afternoon, I will have a look at my 1958 KuïB.
Jacques. |
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Topic |
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Kiev III 1949 and Contax III M series.
