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Pete
saipan59
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 25 2012 : 9:54:12 PM
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I'm new to the forum, and thinking of getting an F-21. On ePay I see quite a few for sale. However, one vendor has several that on the back side are marked "KGB" (in Cyrillic) and "CCCP". Are these fakes? I find it highly unlikely that the KGB would use such a marking.
I have only modest knowledge of cameras, but I'm interested in espionage equipment (see my pages at http://www.militaryradio.com/spyradio ).
I would welcome any advice related to acquiring an F-21.
Thanks!
Pete
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 03:26:45 AM
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Hi Pete,
Welcome to the forum. The early F-21 cameras were certainly used by the KGB, but were definately not labelled as such. The ones that you have seen on Ebay are genuine F-21 cameras but have had the 'KGB' engraving added to appeal to collector's and souvenir hunter's. The last batch of F-21 cameras were issued with the name 'Zenit MF-1' and the KMZ logo added, and these were on general sale.
The most common F-21 is also known as the Ajax-12 (Àÿêñ-12). A later version known as the Nailon (Íàéëîí), had no shutter speed control. Instead it incorporated a light cell and an automatic shutter.
Thanks for the link to your very interesting website.
David. |
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Pete
saipan59
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 10:01:07 AM
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Thanks David! That makes sense about the "KGB" marking. It's a shame that they do that, and that some folks will not realize that it's bogus. Just for the record, in case it is helpful to others: Authentic spy gear generally has fewer markings than other similar equipment. The goal is to have "plausible deniability" of the true origin of the equipment, in case it is captured (even though everyone knows where it came from). So it should not be marked with a country, manufacturer, date, contract #, etc. The most that can be expected is a type/model number, and a serial number.
My next F-21 question: I could not find a site that outlines the variations, how they changed over the years, etc. (I just recently got a FED-2b, and found much detailed info about the versions). For example, I see F-21 units that have black paint on the top cover, but others have a mottled gray finish. Does that indicate the vintage?
Speaking of the FED-2; I got one because I'm assuming that it was a model that would have been used by Eastern-bloc security services for various things, the same way that CIA folks used Leica RF models in the 50's and 60's. Of course, Minox and Robot were popular, too.
Pete |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4247 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 10:17:48 AM
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Hello Pete,
David is absolutely right a lot of sellers do ruin these cameras by making them "more attractive for collectors" but which in fact is opposite.
The only page that I know that described the history of these cameras is Georgiy Abramov's photohistory.ru which is in Russian. You should be able to run parts of it through Google translate to be able to read it. here's the link:
http://photohistory.ru/index.php?pid=1207248179642549
Cheers,
Vlad. |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2012 : 06:19:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RCCCUK
The most common F-21 is also known as the Ajax-12 (Àÿêñ-12).
Indeed: "also known", but it's correct to write: AYaKS (this is the abbreviation). ;)
Regard to the inscriptions, the Secret service, by definition, is a secret... So: nothing is labelled. |
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Pete
saipan59
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 9:58:47 PM
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I just got my first F-21 today! I'm wondering if anyone knows the details enough to estimate how old mine is?
The features of mine are:
Probably a 7-digit serial on the back, but the first 4 digits are scratched off.
No markings on the front plate (many seem to have the serial here).
Metal finish is black paint (I've seen pix of others that appear to be a dark gray baked enamel).
Lens serial is 950198, f2.8.
Looks very nice and seems to work fine.
Thanks for any comments!
Pete |
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 10:15:15 PM
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Hello Pete
The s/n are most 5 digits long, newer ones beginning with "T". If the s/n on your F-21 is on the back it must be from 1994 or 1995. The lens looks to be made in 1995 so the camera is probably from 1995 too. The black paint is normal for this model.
Best wishes - Guido
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 10:18:42 PM
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Sorry Pete, once again
The s/n are most 5 or 6 digits long.
Best wishes - Guido |
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John
John
2 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2014 : 10:14:41 AM
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Hello,
I'm new to the forum. I'm interested in cameras manufactured for intellignce or secret services. A little while ago I acquired an F-21 (serial 72958), an F-27 (88403), and a Tochka (1302186). I was very pleased to find a wealth of knowledge via this site on these cameras. Recently, I located another F-21 I'm interested in purchasing but, noticed it has only a 4 digit serial number (5285). It also has an attachment on the shutter release button which appears to be a steel cylinder with a button. My thoughts were that if authentic, it might be a bit rare due to the low serial number and unusual shutter release button. Does anyone have any insight as to rarity or authenticy of this F-21 or about the shutter button attachment?
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 29 2014 : 11:00:22 AM
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Hello John
The four digit s/n are very early, they begin maybe at #5000. The oldest I have seen was the #5065. If the number of the F-21 you looking for is #5265 (not #5285) it's on eBay since April 2014. The cylindric extention of the shutter release button may be only screwed on. The camera looks authentic for me, such shutter extentions are seen sometimes also with electric release mechnisms.
Best wishes - Guido
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2972014_5265.jpg
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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John
John
2 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2014 : 4:27:51 PM
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Guido,
Thanks for the reply.You certainly helped answer my question regarding authenticity. It seems it's an authentic early model with a less common adaption. Yes the one you posted with yellow background was the one on ebay. I saw the other model you posted that had the extension added by the second seller when it was first listed on ebay without the extension. I was not sure about authenticity of this camera due to the oval shape where the serial number is. It seemed different than many of the other F-21 I saw which just seemed to show the serial number engraved and painted on. Not sure why this one has that oval shaped recess under the serial number. However, now several F-21 cameras on ebay from the same country appear to have the oval and seem to be from the 80's. Perhaps that is normal for camera of that model and period.
I did discover another photo previously posted in the forum which not only shows the cylindric attachment but, also the electric release. The caption indicates the modification in the picture was east German. If anyone had any idea how the cameras were disguised when using the release, that would be interesting history. From camera enthusiasts, it would be interesting to know if anyone has ever seen this kind of adaption before, on any make / model camera.
http://ussrphoto.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=566 |
Edited by - John on Aug 03 2014 09:33:08 AM |
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Topic |
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F-21 with "KGB" marking? Fake?
