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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo

USA
92 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  12:23:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
..........more to entice some discussion but I can`t help but wonder if old Leicas and other highly prized collectable 35`s are going to be sought after much when film becomes progressively scarce , thus more costly , or the possibility of it going away? To draw an analogy what good is an old camera that takes 620 film other than being used for a paperweight or conversation piece?

Realistically we have to assume that the end is inevitable and obviously coming as there isn`t too much shelf space or choices alloted for even 35mm film these days , There are but few film cameras being marketed anymore and for good reasons I suppose. Oh, I don`t imagine the end would come as quickly as next year and it`s no big concern for me since I`m 65 yrs old and undoubtedly will enjoy a couple more years of film but should we believe there are droves of youngsters looking forward to shooting film cameras again and that they will keep the supply in demand?
Maybe I should even reconsider expanding my FSU collection? What I already have should last me well into the next world.
Don`t blast me but instead lets hear your thoughts on this.
John





Edited by - uccmmcpo on Dec 17 2007 12:24:34 PM

Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  1:05:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

The early Daguerreotype (and even early wet-plate, ambrotype, and tintype) cameras are among the most expensive cameras in the world. So, I think that the best, most attractive, technologically significant or advanced, and rarest examples of the 35mm still cameras will still be sought after and will become expensive as collectibles, even after 35mm film becomes scarce or unavailable.

But many of the very common models, made in large numbers and bought now as user film cameras, will not be sought after in the same way as they are now, since film will become such a problem. For example Zorki-4K, Zenit-TTL, Zenit-11, and many othe Russian cameras were made in very large quantities and will probably not be desired when film is gone!

Regards, Bill

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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  2:59:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm strongly believe that film will never be gone completely. The way TV will never replace Radio, and Internet will never replace News Paper. (Well... never say never, but you know what I meen :)
I see now, today, many people switch from digital back to film, by many reasons. Lomography is good example of what digital can not do. Analog photography became an art and art should never die. And we are who collecting instruments of this art. Isn't we
I'm strongly believe that monetary value of mechanical cameras no matter how many of them was produced will rise over time indefinitely. They may be ups and downs, but general direction is only up. It happened with most of the collectable, and semicollectable, and simply old items. I believe price of the cameras may drop before main street film are gone, and it will rase sharply right after this event. And it will going slowly up there for.
But I'm personally collecting cameras because they remind me old times. When I take old FED or Zenit in my hands I fill younger and better. What kind price can you put on this

Edited by - okynek on Dec 17 2007 2:59:39 PM
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  3:19:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But I'm personally collecting cameras because they remind me old times. When I take old FED or Zenit in my hands I fill younger and better. What kind price can you put on this
[/quote]from okeynek.

Do you think the younger generation will be as nostalgic and will appreciate the old times or will they see old mechanical cameras as being archaic and worthless devices ?
It`s a whole new digital world with instant results in the eyes of my kids/grandchildren and they certainly see things differently than I do and have different priorities.
Maybe scary but my mother and father felt the same way I guess.

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Dec 17 2007 3:21:17 PM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  3:37:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
John,

one does not have to displace the other.. I am 29 (I'm not sure if that's what you mean by younger generation or you're talking about today's 16-year olds) - I find digital very practical and film cameras to be tons of fun, and just plain mechanically fascinating! It's definitely nostalgic for me, a way to recapture childhood when my 10th birthday present in 1988 was LOMO LC-A! Not only I enjoy shooting film, but I also started collecting these pieces.. maybe I'm a glitch in the system, I don't know...

Vlad
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  4:15:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

John,

one does not have to displace the other.. I am 29 (I'm not sure if that's what you mean by younger generation or you're talking about today's 16-year olds) - I find digital very practical and film cameras to be tons of fun, and just plain mechanically fascinating! It's definitely nostalgic for me, a way to recapture childhood when my 10th birthday present in 1988 was LOMO LC-A! Not only I enjoy shooting film, but I also started collecting these pieces.. maybe I'm a glitch in the system, I don't know...

Vlad


Yes Vlad , How many 29 year olds do you know in the US that use film cameras and purchase film on a regular basis?
I`d have to think you are an exception to the rule.

Surely
I can understand your outlook on this subject with your more recent European background that may be quite different from the younger (2nd, 3rd, 4th +) generation here in the states who have grown up with differnt values here where new is often the preferred style.
I certainly don`t want to make it sound negative or turn the discussion into a negative or political discussion but I often wonder if my kids /grandkids would have the appreciation I do for old things and nostalgia.I can`t see them ever wanting to use film having grown up in a digital era but I won`t be here to know for sure will I?

As far as one replacing the other I have to believe that it does not look good for the future of film regardless of how some of us feel.
It will take the masses to support the industry and keep it alive and it`s quite likely to fail in time.
John

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Dec 17 2007 4:15:53 PM
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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  4:37:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Do you think the younger generation will be as nostalgic and will appreciate the old times or will they see old mechanical cameras as being archaic and worthless devices ?

Absolutely!!! I remember how I was stun when I first time sow steam locomotive. I remember how my son was stun when he first time sow steam locomotive 30 years later. I can assure you that his son, my grandson will be stun same way. This is timeless!!!
Cameras the same way!!! Anything what have purpose will fascinate us. It's in our blood.
quote:
It`s a whole new digital world with instant results in the eyes of my kids/grandchildren and they certainly see things differently than I do and have different priorities.

Something will be after digital world as well, and something will be even after that!. Not to worry. Next generations will respect what we did same way we respected what did our fathers.
Just recently I found old 386 laptop computer with Tetris and some other games. I'm not sure who get more fun play it me or my 9 year old sun. Netenda Wii was left unattended! Packman is big time in new Disney park in Florida. Very few oldtimers there!!!
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  4:38:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thinking more on this it`s probably irrelovent whether the next generations including my kids,etc are the least bit nostalgic or whether some of them would have a liking for old things and film cameras but it`s very unlikely that enough of them are going to support the film industry as we know it once was and what it is presently.
I`m not even liking myself to talk such gloom and doom but I must be realistic about it too.
Really now, film photography is simply wonderful and causes much happiness to those of us who enjoy it so but would our lives be drastically changed if it went by the wayside? I don`t think so, we would just find another hobby to take it`s place.
John
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  7:17:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
People! Think in that: Many many mechanical film cameras will exist and could be repaired after all digital cameras were gone!
Matches still exist and there are no direct replacement.
The wheel and the screw and the gears are irreplaceble.
We can extend ourselves in lots of phylosophy but:
The pregnancy of physico-chemical photography took historically at least 21 centuries from Al-Hazem to Daguerre to appear. It is unbeliaveable the maturing of a (any) process in 30 years.
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1992 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  7:31:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another point.
The truth behind digital.
Digital photo cameras were skeptically seen and refused in the first year.
The users returned several of them.
Never a so heavy advertising were made around digital stuff with a money waste several times the cameras production costs.
A large market was found gathering people who never knew nothing about photography.
See two important things:
How many high class cameras does exist in digital?
How many of them have a complete photographic system?
Observe; Nowadays none wants electronics film cameras(point and shoot) they are uncollectable and unuseable.- This is a preview of the future of digital stuff.
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  7:50:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When China, India, Russia, mid-east, Africa become rich, and people there take interest in precision toys like mechanical watches, fine cameras. They will be in short supply.:-).They can be used as a decoration item on a shelf just like any other art pieces IMHO. Besides, those optics are usually very fine, and can be used on a digital camera, so the lens alone is worth the price one paid for a beautiful Fed-2.
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Dec 17 2007 :  8:55:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kievuser

When China, India, Russia, mid-east, Africa become rich, and people there take interest in precision toys like mechanical watches, fine cameras. They will be in short supply.:-).They can be used as a decoration item on a shelf just like any other art pieces IMHO. Besides, those optics are usually very fine, and can be used on a digital camera, so the lens alone is worth the price one paid for a beautiful Fed-2.



It might not be such a good thing after all to become so rich that they would have more money than they really need.
It`s almost sinful to have this kind of disposable income to collect such things. I think my mother and father (who never had much) would roll over in their grave knowing how much money I have wasted on such frivolous things in my lifetime.
I feel a little guilty but it doesn`t last long and certainly not to the point where I`m going to give any money away either. heh,heh,heh.
It`s human nature to be greedy.
John

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Dec 17 2007 8:56:14 PM
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