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 About the Fed 1b s/n 4580...
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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  07:57:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello!

This thread to try and clarify what can be exactly this Fed, to answer Alfa2 questions...
First, the subject is a contradiction in itself. The 1b series (with the engravind in italic letters) begins around the s/n 6000. So, this Fed 1b, with such an early number, should not exist.

To explain that, it seems there are two possibilities:
- an error of engraving with a missing cipher,
- the engraving of a former s/n on a "newer" cover by the factory, because of an important repair. Leitz had done the same with their Leicas.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/422016_IMG_2266.JPG

The comparison between these three Fed 1b cameras shows that this s/n 4580 belongs to the same variety as the s/n 25617:
- it has a broad engraving,
- the shape of the cover, on the left, is more curved and angular than on the 21225.

With the cameras I have, I cannot be more precise about the limits. But you can have a look at Alexey's site he has too several intereting 1b-s : http://ussrcameras.ru/?rp=1&action=tovar&tovar_category=385

Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  08:22:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Now about the vulcanite.

This one is brown and patterned. We find it on the regular 13/14xxx to 16xxx 1b series, then on some c 25xxx 1b. I have seen it once on a 1d, but it was certainly a camera which was remounted from spares.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/422016_IMG_2272.JPG

This vulcanite is not very common: a lack of "regular" vulcanite these years?

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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  08:44:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The winding and rewind button are interesting too.
To be short, we have two different millings for these buttons:
- the "fine" on 1a-s and early 1b-s.
- the "coarse" ones.

This s/n 4580 has a "fine" milling for the winding button, and a "coarse" for the rewind one.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/422016_IMG_2277.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/422016_IMG_2278.JPG

In my collection, the s/n 29840 is the first to have the two buttons with the same "coarse" milling.


Edited by - Jacques M. on Feb 04 2016 09:14:16 AM
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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  09:01:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I could add some other details, like the recess under the speed dial (no recess here), the absence of hole on the back, etc. All shows that this camera could be a 22/29xxx 1b.

That would seem logical.
Of course, an error of engraving with a missing cipher (a "2" here) is possible. I rather think of an exchange of a non working camera by the factory, with the original serial number.
This camera is not alone: we already have a listing of these strange 1b-s: http://ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=98&ParentID=1&ContentID=1035&Item=FED+1b+%2D+Unusual+Serial+Numbers

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  09:54:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Just to add an idea.
In our previous discussions, we had too examined the possibility of a special range of numbering, for the army, the NKVD, or else.

Jacques.
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Lenny
496 Posts
Posted - Feb 04 2016 :  3:30:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.


Now about the vulcanite.
This one is brown and patterned. We find it on the regular 13/14xxx to 16xxx 1b series, then on some c 25xxx 1b.
This vulcanite is not very common: a lack of "regular" vulcanite these years?



This doesn't look like vulcanite. To me, vulcanite is a kind of plasticine which dries more and more with the years. If an empty body is pushed, vulcanite can break into pieces. Often missing vulcanite parts can be seen.
The cover on this #4580 seems to be like an one piece leaf. But I could be wrong.

Love the wind knob. Why did they change to a coarser type later and then came back to it for a short time on early Fed-2.
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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 05 2016 :  04:34:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used the word "vulcanite" because it's the only general one I know and which can be understand by everybody.
Of course, it doesn't look like "leatherette".
And this "skin" doesn't seem vulcanized, though rubberized. It peels off too when drying, but much less than vulcanite. And it is made in one leaf sticked on the body, the joining point being the lens ring.

During these 1933/37 years, the Fed factory changed the vulcanite several times. The 1b served as a laboratory for this question, as for many others. Exciting.

Jacques.


Edited by - Jacques M. on Feb 05 2016 05:34:24 AM
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts
Posted - Feb 05 2016 :  07:53:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.


I could add some other details, like the recess under the speed dial (no recess here), the absence of hole on the back, etc. All shows that this camera could be a 22/29xxx 1b.



First of all thank you for detailed description.

Probably your theory is right but I have some questions.
1) What is serial number of a lens which was bought with the camera ?
2) When you open bottom of the camera to load the film, is there additional screw which disappiered in later items ? (Do you remember from which serial number the screw disappiered ?)
3) Do you remember from which number of hole on the back disappiered ?

I'm asking because I don't have anything to do with FEDs for many years but I remember something still.

Jacques, it is really pleasure to talk to you about these exciting things.
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Lenny
496 Posts
Posted - Feb 05 2016 :  08:16:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.

I used the word "vulcanite" because it's the only general one I know and which can be understand by everybody.
Of course, it doesn't look like "leatherette".
And this "skin" doesn't seem vulcanized, though rubberized. It peels off too when drying, but much less than vulcanite. And it is made in one leaf sticked on the body, the joining point being the lens ring.

During these 1933/37 years, the Fed factory changed the vulcanite several times. The 1b served as a laboratory for this question, as for many others. Exciting.

Jacques.





Interesting indeed Jacques. Same with green and grey covers on Zorki-C, which were kind of seldom first, but later those leaf covers were standard for example on Zenit-E. Might be much faster to produce with a leaf cover.
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Jacques M.
France
2553 Posts
Posted - Feb 05 2016 :  09:38:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Alfa2,

The serial number of the lens is 38131. It's not really conclusive to date the body (the lens can have been changed), but it's not far. To cross with the passport of the s/n 3504, lens s/n 44236, delivered the 20/08/1936.

When opening the bottom, there is this famous screw. It disappeared towards the s/n 49/51xxx, just before the end of the 1b series.

As for the hole in the back, it disappeared c. s/n 11/12000.

All that roughly: for the early Feds, the changings are more graduated rather than really fast.

Amitiés. Jacques.
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