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sean perry
seany65

United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Sep 18 2016 :  11:18:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone.

I recently bought a zorki 4k with J-8 lens. Both look almost new, with the lens the best out of the two.

I've had at least 2 (if not 3) 4k's before. However, it seems my memory of them wasn't quite as accurate as I thought.

The problem being, as far as I could remember, it was fairly easy to see almost all of the image in the viewfinder. But that isn't the case, in fact I can't really see all that much even when I take my glasses off.

So I was wondering if there are any FSU rangefinders on which it is quite easy to see almost of the image in the viewfinder, even while wearing glasses?

I say 'almost all', as I'm not expecting miracles.

I'm going to get rid of the zorki 4k as I can't afford to get it repaired, (the rangefinder needs a little bit of adjusting as the image it gives is very slightly below the real image, and there is a 'dark patch' in the top right of the viewfinder, which could be 'deterioration of the silvering of the rangefinder window').

If I could see most of the image in the viewfinder, I may have saved up and had those two problems sorted out, but I can't so it has to go.

I may keep the lens if there is another rangefinder that does give a good view of the image which takes LTM lenses.

If it turns out that only Kievs do then I'll let this J-8 go as well. Oh, and an I-61LD which I'm expecting from Ukraine, if it turns up. I bought it on ebay from a member called 'chops-ua', who's no longer a member there.

I'd want the lot to go to someone who could repair the 4k.

If anybody does want the 4k, I'll have to ask you to send me/email me a postage label. However all I'd ask in return is either pay what you think it's worth, via paypal, or possibly swap/trade it for a camera and lens which is yet to be decided on.

I have good photos of the 4k/J8 which I got from the ebay listing of it. I bought it from ebay member 'itsfozzy', who I think doesn't do repairs.

I've not put this in the For Sale/Trade forum yet as I'm not sure if I'll be 'sort of' selling it or trading it in on another camera. When that is sorted out I'll put an official Topic in there.



Edit: So, are there any FSU cameras that give a better view of what's in the viewfinder than the zorki 4k?

Any help would be much appreciated.







Edited by - seany65 on Sep 19 2016 08:39:29 AM
Jacques M.
France
2456 Posts
Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  09:52:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I have the same problem.

I wear spectacles too, and I cannot use correctly the cameras which have a 1/1 viewfinder. The Zorki 3 and 4 have such viewfinders. They seem very clear and usable, and you can aim with two eyes opened. But when there is no internal frame, you don't exactly know what you will be on the film... And the situation is even worse when you wear spectacles.

So, I personally think that the Fed 2 or the Kievs (to stay in the same prices), depending on the lenses you have, are a better solution. Their viewfinders should be around 0,70, I think. The Fed 2's is specially well made, with its large base, and its dioptric regulation, perfect for those who wear spectacles...

Jacques.
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SteveA
United Kingdom
122 Posts
Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  1:39:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had the same issues with Zorki 3 and 4 - would also suggest looking at a FED3 or 4 (both have the slow speeds) as you can see the border in the viewfinder, also you retain the dioptre adjustment (not available on the Kiev) and the simplicity of the Leica style shutter, which most repairers are familiar with. The 1960's cameras are good quality and all metal; the later ones including FED5 are rather worse quality and don't look as nice.

Cheers,

Steve
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  5:21:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

@Jacques M. I know what you mean about the 4k's bright and clear 'finder, and with the rangefinder being so big (if a little harder to see than most, with it being almost the same colour as the real image), it's one of my preferred 'finders. Or it would be if I could see the 'finder edges without too much trouble. I have owned an Fed 2, but it was only for a short while over 20 years ago, and I can't remember how much of the image I could see.

@SteveA, I have owned two fed 4L's (well, as far as I knew at the time they were known in Britain as 4L's because of the Lightmeter), and I found them too big and I dilsiked the rangefinder window, it was a bit too small and far too bright/yellow for me as I had a bit too much trouble seeing the real image behind it to focus properly. I also didn't like the rewind wheel. Soooo ssslllooowww to use.

How bright is the rangefinder window on Fed 2's and the first version of the Fed 3?

How much will a slotted metal lenshood block the viewfinders of the Fed 2 and 1st Fed 3? Any more or less than a 4k?

How much will a slotted metal lenshood block the rangefinder of the 1st Fed 3? Any more or less than a 4k?

I know the edges of a 4k's 'finder show the angle of view of a J-8, but do the 'finders of the Fed 2 and 1st Fed 3 show the same angles?

I quite like the look of the Zenit 'S', but it seems a rather complicated loading method and I'm not sure I'd have the patience. How much of the image area would I be able to see in the 'finder? I've seen a couple of clips on youtube and the eyepiece that we look through seems quite large.

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contronatura
Netherlands
24 Posts
Posted - Sep 20 2016 :  04:38:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you are wearing glasses and you like rangefinders then welcome to the pain. Not only FSU's, but basically all vintage rangefinders have same problems: impossible to see the whole image in finder and they will scratch your glasses like crazy if you're not careful.
One solution is to use a modern accessory finders, but they tend to be on a pricey side. Interestingly, the soviet turret finder (VU) is pretty good for glass-wearers. I had no problem seeing 28mm frame line. But before you even try it put some kind of glass protector or you can ruin your glasses in a minute. I cut donuts from a piece of leatherette and fix them on an eyepiece with a strong double sided tape - does the job.
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Sep 20 2016 :  12:51:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello contranatura, and thanks for the suggestion.

Hmmm. Me, glue and other things which aren't glue and aren't supposed to get covered in glue, don't really go together. I'm pretty sure even if I took the lens off and put it in my closet I'd still get glue on it.

@Jacques M. When you say the the Fed 2 and kiev's viewfinders "should be about 0,70," do you mean the image size in the viewfinder will be about 70% of life size, or do you mean the viewfinders will show about 70% of what will appear on the photo? Is the viewfinder of the 1st type fed 3 the same as the fed 2?



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Jacques M.
France
2456 Posts
Posted - Sep 21 2016 :  05:33:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That means that image size in the viewfinder should be about 70 per cent of lifesize. Don't ask now what is the exact correlation between image in viewfinder and photo.
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SteveA
United Kingdom
122 Posts
Posted - Sep 21 2016 :  1:16:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You see less in the viewfinder than on the final image - around 93 to 95% is visible in the viewfinder of the Zorki 4k I have found.

Steve
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Sep 21 2016 :  7:19:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info, Jacques.

@SteveA. I see. Basically the same as most 35mm slrs, then. Thanks.

I suppose part of the equation of how much we can see of the image in the 'finder, is the size of the eyepiece.

I'm got my eye on a zenit 'S' and a zenit 3m as possible replacements for my 4k. I seem to recall that zenit E, EM and TTL's all had 'finders that showed about 77% of the photo area. Is this similar to the 'S' and 3M?

The eyepiece of the 'S' and 3m seem rather large, so does anyone know if they give a good view of the frame/photo area?
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SteveA
United Kingdom
122 Posts
Posted - Sep 22 2016 :  09:24:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the 3m it looks nearer to 85% - I just dug the camera out and put a ground glass on the back to compare, so about 2.5mm extra either side in the 'finder.

Steve
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Sep 22 2016 :  10:50:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for doing that SteveA. :-)

Thanks also for the info.

Edit: Hmm. SteveA, seeing that you have a 3m, could you please tell me:

1) What lenses are available for it?

2) Is it the same lens mount as for a zenit 'C'?

3) Would it be 'evil' (lol) of me to find the most modern lens I can for a 3m or C and use that instead of any 'original' lens they come supplied with?

Thanks again for yuor help.

Edited by - seany65 on Sep 22 2016 11:20:51 AM
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Oct 05 2016 :  6:30:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know if the zenit 3 has a dioptre correction facility?

I presume if it did, it would be the ring around the eyepiece.

Just in case anyone else who has trouble with FSU rangefinder camera viewfinders, looks at this thread in the hope of getting some help, I can say this: I now have a fed 2 (not the big version that looks like a fed 3), and even though I wear glasses I can see the top, bottom and right-hand side of the viewfinder frame with almost no effort (about the same as on a nikon f301), and I can see the left of the frame with only little bit more effort.

I've seen pics of the backs of kiev 2, 3 and 4 cameras, and almost all seem to have an oblong hole cut out of the metal part of the eyepiece, rather than just have a round hole. It looks to me like it would be more difficult to see through for a spectacle-wearer, and to see the whole of the viewfinder than on most other cameras.

Edited by - seany65 on Oct 05 2016 6:42:24 PM
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Oct 06 2016 :  4:51:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is it possible to to take the black eyepiece thing off the back of a zorki 4k and then file down the oblong 'frame' so that it becomes the same size as the inner circle of the eyepiece, or even to file down that inner circle so that more of the viewfinder can be seen when the eyepiece is put back on? Hmmm, how would I put the eyepiece back? Does it screw in?
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2016 :  11:37:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is the width of the inner edge of the 'prescription lens retaining ring' on a zenit E? I don't suppose it's anywhere near 1.5cm is it? It would be really good if it is as that's the size of the inner edge of the metal ring on the eyepiece of the Zenit C that unscrews.
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Milo Schekkerman
Valkir1987
Netherlands
188 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2016 :  1:22:29 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Valkir1987's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
The Zenits used to have dioptry glasses too, that can be screwed in at the back of the eyepiece. Very hard to find nowadays...
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2016 :  3:13:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
valkir1987, do you mean the original zenits and Zenit C's had dioptre lenses?

On the one hand: that would be great, on the other hand: that would be quite frustrating as I'm sure it would be years before I find a suitable one.
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sean perry
seany65
United Kingdom
260 Posts
Posted - Oct 10 2016 :  4:10:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could anyone please tell me if you know the width of the inner edge of the Zenit E's "prescription lens retaining ring"? Did this size change with the different versions?

I ask because with any luck this will be the same size as the width of the inner edge of the ring that unscrews from the Zenit C's eyepiece, and as it seems that dioptre correction lesnes were made for the E, I'm thinking that maybe they could fit on my C.
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