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 Start SLR (KMZ) or Kiev-10 SLR (Arsenal)
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fotolubitel
Norway
3 Posts
Posted - Jan 06 2019 :  11:36:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's about Start vs. Kiev-10, in reliability and DYI servicing.

for 35mm film my favorites SLR are the Zenit-3, Zenit-3M and Zenit-V. I like pure manual bodies. But with these Zenit, the 1/30, 1/60 1/125, 1/250, 1/500 speed may be limiting. No slow speeds and the faster one is typically slower in practice.
So I was after a soviet box, purely manual, with extended speeds range and useable with screw mounts M39 and/or M42.

The LOMO Almaz-103 looks very nice on paper, with speeds 1 to 1/1000, and the PK mount can be fit with an M42 ring, but it was the 80's and all the testimonies about the economic constraint on the factory and therefore bad or very random quality implementation of the design, caused by use of inadequate machine tools for the required level of precision and poor choice of materials.
I see sometimes one for sale, serviced but I'm afraid about reliability.

So I came to consider the much older KMZ Start (1958-64). I bought a maintained one while I was a week-end in Sankt-Peterburg and am very happy with it. It feels solid and very well machined. The speed mechanism is obviously from the Zorki-4, which I am familiar with and can service myself.
Almost the perfect SLR for me. I use the adapter ring, for M39 lenses. I don't care about the DOF preview system available with the native Helios-44 only.

That said, there's another SLR with specific mount but available M39 adapter, the Kiev-10, with 1/2 to 1/1000 speeds. The speeds knob reminds of the Kiev-6s/60 medium format (also 1/2 to 1/1000) which is a different mechanism than the Zorki-like used by KMZ. (I have two Kiev-6s). And it's a metallic fan shutter instead of the cloth curtain.

So, I am curious about opinions/testimonies relatively to reliability in the long term, (regular amateur usage), and how easy to service.

---
btw, my Start. I re-skinned it in brown leather, padded the cocking lever, glued an ISO wheel on top of the original markings, did a paint job (it was worn), and here it's with a Mir-1 with the M39 adapter:




http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/612019_K5AB5642.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/612019_K5AB5647.JPG

some padding under the lever:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/612019_K5AB5653.JPG

a cheap homebrew ISO circle:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/612019_K5AB5655.JPG



---------------------------------
Current working cameras:
RF: Fed-2, Kiev-4a. Zorki-4
MF: Salyut, Zenit-80. Salyut-S, Kiev-6S, Kiev-60
SLR: Zenit-V

Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
953 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2019 :  10:22:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Kiev-10 has had its problems, but if it still works, it should work for ages in the future also.
The selenium cell is what it is, but Start has no meter at all, so this will most likely be nothing serious.
I used my 10 and 15 when still shooting film, I liked its odd personal way of thinking and looks :)
And the Kiev-10/15 lenses have been very cheap, so easy to get.

Best regards,
Juhani
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rkaipov
Germany
36 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2019 :  11:03:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can use on Kiev-10 only the native lenses and M39 SLR lenses with a special adapter which is not that easy to find. M42 lenses cannot be used. Servicing is difficult, it is a complex camera the the autoexposure with the shutter priority. If it is broken, it is easier just to buy a new camera. The autoexposure is based on a selenium cell, difficult to say if you can find a camera with a reliable autoexposure nowadays. Perhaps it would be better to look at Kiev-15 which uses a CdS photoresistor
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
953 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2019 :  11:19:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And 10 can be used manually also!

Best regards,
Juhani
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fotolubitel
Norway
3 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2019 :  11:05:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the feedback Juhani and rkaipov!

I forgot to clearly tell that I don't bother about metering. I do external metering (a Sverdlovsk, a Sekonic or just mobile phone app). In fact if I buy a Kiev-10 I will cover the selenium cell with a plate matching the top cover.

The reason I prefer to try Kiev-10 instead Kiev-15 is ergonomics, the 10 is slim and I think I would be happier with aperture wheel near the lens (Kiev-10) rather than on top left (Kiev-15).
As for the lenses, I use the Start with the M39 adapter, and while I am trying to make my mind about the Kiev-10, I found a M39 adapter on Ebay, that I have bought. Indeed it has to be rare, because I searched on avito.ru and found nothing(!)
the one I have found on ebay is still listed today, from a guy in Krasnodar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KIEV-10-KIEV-15-camera-body-ADAPTER-to-mount-M39-lens-from-old-Zenit-Kristall/312418021104


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712019_adapter_Kiev-10_M39.jpg

Also, still about lenses: I tinker a lot and I use to convert some lenses.I have few Pentax PK lenses converted to M42 with mounts taken from old cheap 42 lenses and more or less homework (dremel, epoxy, screws ....). The old Tokina and Vivitar in PK mounts for instance are easy to do. What I am playing with now is the same but with homemade M39 mounting plates. This is more difficult, few M39 lenses came with the thread part of a broad plate, so I am also considering the option to get a die and metal workshop to machine these.

Maybe I just find a cheap Kiev-10 for parts, so I could play with disassembly. I am anyway curious about the speeds mechanism.


---------------------------------
Current working cameras:
RF: Fed-2, Kiev-4a. Zorki-4
MF: Salyut, Zenit-80. Salyut-S, Kiev-6S, Kiev-60
SLR: Zenit-V
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
953 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 09 2019 :  09:40:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am pretty sure I have that adapter also, from the time nobody wanted Kiev-10/15. But as the original lenses were so easy & cheap to get, I collected all of them instead
And one extra unused 20mm lens still in box

Best regards,
Juhani


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/912019_K15lensF.jpg


Edited by - cedricfan on Jan 09 2019 09:45:51 AM
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