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okynek
759 Posts |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 06:49:20 AM
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Hi Okynek,
I'm surprised that nobody has replied to your topic earlier! You may well be correct in saying that this camera is original, but to me it's just a transitional Fed-1-g, (engraving still as Fed-1-f).
From my personal point of view as a collector I have never been attracted to anniversary editions of cameras. In fact in the past when given the choice between two identical cameras, one anniverary, and one plain I have always chosen the plain camera even when no difference in price.
Of course it's a matter of personal taste, and I wouldn't criticise other people who enjoy collecting such camera's, but I do think the price difference between standard cameras and anniversary editions is sometimes staggering. This of course is an invitation for dishonest people to fake anniversary editions.
This camera seems better than most because the notation is engraved and it looks okay, but I think that some of the silk screened anniversary notations can look cheap and shoddy, (I'm not even going to mention stickers)
So this camera is not for me, I'm perfectly happy with the standard Fed-1-g's that I already have.
Best wishes, and regards, Jim.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4247 Posts
My Collection
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okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 11:27:34 PM
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I heard that this cameras was given as a presents to Russian delegation invited to Kiev to celebrate 300 anniversary of union Ukraine and Russia in 1954.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Pereyaslav
Considering how seldom even fakes cameras show up, they are probably really rare, much rarer then let say 25 congress of KRSU. What raze question if these cameras really existed? If they are, then this is really special cameras especially today when conditions between both countries is really bad. For who did not translate, the slogan says in Ukrainian: "We always together with Russia!". The other camera specially dedicated to friendship Ukraine and Russia is Kiiv from 1958 (Russian ‘e’ substituted for Ukrainian i) |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1013 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 26 2008 : 02:19:23 AM
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And now I finally understood, it is KNIB instead of KNEB in the Ukraina-test.
Kievs are so common here that it is not impossible to find one.
Smena rules |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 26 2008 : 11:38:04 AM
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Vlad is correct about this camera. It is an authentic example as can be seen by the proper engraving, engraving style details, and the model of camera itself. This commemorative camera is not easy to fake correctly due to the configuration of engraving.
These cameras are quite rare, and to many collectors, sought after because of the historic significance they have since they were engraved by the factory, to commemorate a certain event, and maybe intended to go to certain individuals, if Okynek's idea is correct that they were given as presents to Russian delegation members in 1954. That sounds very possible to me since there are so few and it is a known tradition to give cameras at events like this (LOMO - Komosol, etc).
I already have one of these cameras that is authentic so I won't buy the one on Ebay, but it is a good opportunity to get one, in my opinion.
Regards, Bill
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2008 : 6:43:15 PM
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Bill,
I have already said that I don't like commemoritive cameras in general because they are generally silk screened and I think the silk screening makes them look cheap and shoddy, so it's only my own personal preference that in general I choose not to collect them.
I concede that it's very posible that this camera is genuine, especially as the engraving looks to be well done and factory applied, and the style is very "Fedish".
If genuine this camera becomes almost as important as the "Red Flag", though as I understand the "Red Flag" also had some physical differences other than the engraving, which makes it a variant in it's own right. This camera is as standard, the only difference being the added engraving itself, which leaves it wide open to the fakers.
To fake a "Red Flag" convincingly you would need to change the shutter mechanism from aluminium to brass, plus other changes, (not easy to do).
Neither is this camera mentioned in JLP. I accept that there are certain mistakes and ommissions in Princelle, but I would have thought that this camera would have been known to JLP if it really existed.
On the other hand Okynek says that he has heard that this camera was given to members of the Russian delegation that visited Kiev in 1954. It would be interesting to know the source and authenticity of this information.
If we can confirm and verify that what Okynek heard is true, then we can know for sure that these cameras were produced at the "Fed" factory, and we will have written another page in the history of Fed. After all that is part of the purpose of this forum.
I also think that a Kiev camera would have been a more likely and appropriate gift if the delegation was visiting Kiev, but for now I will keep an open mind.
Best wishes, and regards, Jim.
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okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 11:30:51 AM
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I was trying to find that Web article where I was reading about this cameras, and that it was presented to VIPs celebrating this controversial event in 1954. So far I did not find it. May be some one else will shamble on it.
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 12:01:40 PM
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Okynek,
I truly hope that you find the web article that you are looking for, in fact I will also try to find some reference.
It would be really great to clear up this mystery and to show that these cameras have a place in the history of Soviet photogaphy and are not just the product of a greedy individual.
Good luck and best regards, Jim |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 1:22:26 PM
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Here is what Albino Pegorari writes in his book about FEDS:
"Small series of about 1000 cameras to commorate the 300th anniversary of the friendship between Moscow and Ukraine.
For this occasion the logo of FED 1F has been reintroduced with the addition of the commemorative inscription engraved and colored in red. The serial number is moved on the back of the rangefinder cover."
So, most of the fakes of this camera that I have seen use a later model FED so that the serial number is not in the place where the commemorative engraving has to be done. As well, I believe that on the authentic version of this camera, the serial number is on the rangefinder housing rather than on the back of the top plate. So the way to make this camera would have to be starting with a blank top plate and a blank rangefinder housing ... like done at the factory and which speaks towards authenticity. All the fakes I have seen of this camera so far have had differences from the originals in the configuration of the engraving. There are also slight differences in the spacing, placement, and slant of the lettering.
It may be that Princelle was aware of the camera when he wrote the book, but that he had not seen enough examples to know if it was authentic or not and so not having seen evidence that it was, did not include it.
It could be the case that this camera is a fake and then fakes were made of it, but I believe it is an authentic model originally, because the example that I have has the signs of originality both on the camera and on the case and looks never to have been touched since the 1950s era.
It seems that when a rangefinder housing is re-engraved and the old engraving must be taken off, this process done by the fake-maker does leve some signs, both on the inside and the outside of the rangefinder housing. They are small details but can be detected when the camera is taken apart and examined, and some are visible from the outside usually. The example of the FED 'Friendship' commemorative that I have does not show any of these signs and so this why I have the opinion that it was an authentic version of a limited edition commemorative.
I agree with Jim that if this camera proves to be authentic, it is a rare variation with historic value. I will look for the web article also, when I have a bit of free time.
Regards, Bill
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 1:57:09 PM
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Bill,
I believe that you have already gone a long way to proving that the camera is authentic by finding the reference to Albina Pegorari, despite the fact that some fakes do exist.
If between us we can find other references then we will have helped to write another important chapter in the history of Soviet photographic equipment manufacture.
Best wishes, and goodnight, Jim. |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1981 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:06:04 PM
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Hey Gang!
A question arises!
Why there are so many Russian fakes - and no other from other countries?
Note that there are Russian fakes from other countries!
I have a theory.... but want to know yours.
Regards
LP |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:22:11 PM
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Hello,
I had seen the title of this topic, but seeing "naviki z Rosseiey", I had not opened it. If I had known it's what I call a "Fed anniversary"...
We already spoke of this camera at least on two occasions in april with the titles:
-Fed 1 Anniversary 1654-1954.
-Fed 1 anniversary
And we already included it in the Wiki under "Commemorative cameras".
Perhaps it would be useful to cancel one of the entries?
So, I bought one of the two Fed Anniversary available at DVD's. I must say I had the good luck to get a rare camera at that price. As for JLP, it's not surprising if he doesn't know this camera. In fact, he is a "versatile man" as says Alain and not a collector. He only synthetizes what he is told...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1013 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:24:22 PM
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What about eg Poland and Ukraina, aren't many fakes made in those countries also?
And because there is so many skilled workers for reasonable costs!
For the European friends: go to a recently restored church and find out who the workers were. Most likely from FSU...
Smena rules |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4247 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:47:43 PM
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Jacques, I think all these threads should be left in the forums since each one has valuable information in it.. I just hope people use search feature in the forums before posting a similar topic in the future.
Vlad. |
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Jacques M.
France
2584 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:53:36 PM
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Vlad, I was only speaking of the two entries in the Wiki for the same camera.
Of course, I think you are absolutely right when it's a thread...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4247 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:56:31 PM
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ah, well with the entries, please use the request for removal option for ones you'd like gone, I will approve them.
Thanks!
Vlad |
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Naviki z Rossiey
