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Robert Tyss
robtyss

Germany
21 Posts
Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  5:50:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm robtyss, and I use russian Kameras for my pics, In the moment I work for a little Page of the "Kommtiee of russian Camera-Art" Now we ar only six peoples in the Komitee, but in the VFDKV (Union of Digital Camara Refusal) we ar over 310 peoples

My first question is I surge Pics of the A.A.Min's Reflex Camera of the Year 1929. Can sombody help?

And now the link to ouer Main-Page. The Kommitee its under VFDKV-Gruppen on the right side. Im Unser No 146.
http://www.vfdkv.de/default.asp

robtyss
or
the1xt
the frist cross trail


Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4197 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  7:19:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome Robtyss!

Which country of manufacture is that camera?

Vlad.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  9:24:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Hi robtyss and welcome to the USSRPhoto.com Forum!

I have never seen an actual photo or a real example of the A.A. Min Reflex camera. I have only seen the drawing that is shown in the Princelle book (page 40) - 2nd edition).

As far as I know, no one actually has an example of this camera in a collection or museum. I will look through the Sovetskoe Foto magazines that I have to see if there are any photographs, drawings, or articles about the Min Reflex and if I find any I will post them tp this forum thread.



Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4197 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  10:12:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh jeez! Shows you my ignorance.. That A.A. MIN Reflex! :) For some reason I was thinking it was an old German camera until you, Bill pointed it out ... didn't ring a bell for some reason, even though I thought I knew Princelle by heart :)

Yes it would be quite a sensation if someone actually has real photos of this camera... Was this camera made after Exa? So is this officially the 2nd SLR in the world?

Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  10:52:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Vlad,

In a way I don't think it is officially anything since no examples of the camera exist, or at least have been found as far as we know.

If one did surface, and there was some sort of further documentaion as to when the camera was actually made, when it was designed, and when it was conceived, then there may possibly be some arguments that could be made as to its place in photographic history.

The Ihagee Kine-Exakta was the first 35 mm SLR to actually be produced, although some folks argue that the Gelveta or SPORT Russian SLR was in the design stage of production earlier than the Kine-Exakta.

Regards, Bill

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Robert Tyss
robtyss
Germany
21 Posts
Posted - Sep 15 2007 :  04:25:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I have no infromation of the manufaktur, only the Optic its from VOOMP (3.5/5cm). I think the A.A.Min its realy the First 35mm Mirrorreflexcam of the world, the Exakta with 35mm film com's later in the Year 1936 , the frist Exakta wars loadin with 127 Material (4x6,5 cm)

And on request, my enlish its not the best, please typ simply.

thanks

robtyss
or
the1xt
the first cross trail
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1868 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 15 2007 :  12:38:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
robtyss
Wellcome our VFDKV member!
At
http://www.novacon.com.br/h3comp4.htm
you can see:
1)First drawing of the Min camera 1929 by A: A: MIN
2)Second drawing of the Min camera made by A.O. Gelgar
3)Unanamed prototype model shown at Sovetskoe Foto Jan 1935 (A.A.Min's Reflex Camera ?)
4)Art-Déco Logotype in lens cap of Voomp-Goi prototype that says BOOMP POI (Petrograd?)
5)And the slightly modified fist series Sport camera
LP
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1868 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 15 2007 :  12:49:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The page http://www.photohistory.ru/Sport-camera.html has a complete history and specifications of the Sport camera but does not mention the Min or the Gelveta
LP
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 15 2007 :  12:56:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Yes, the Min Reflex may be the first 35mm Reflex camera, if an example of the camera can be found.

If only the drawings can be seen, ten it can not be proved that it was actually made.

The number 3 photo that was in the Jan. 1935 issue of Sovetskoe-Foto is identified as the "Gelveta" by Princelle. The lens cap shows the stylized logo of "VOOMP - GOI" which signifies the place of manufacture of the camera (VOOMP) and the lens (developed at GOI). Both were at Leningrad and this is the same two group that developed the VOOMP - Pioneer cameras. In fact, the VOOMP - Pioneer II in my collection has a fancy "GOI" logo impressed into the metal of the brass shutter cage, so I think GOI was sometimes responsible for more than just the lenses of these early cameras.

So, if someone can find an example of the MIN Reflex and examine it, maybe it can be told if it was only a single prototype or a camera actually made in a production series. If it can not be found, then we do not know if it was only a drawing or a real camera!

In the meantime, without the evidence of the Min Reflex, the Kine-Exakta will still be known as the first 35mm Reflex camera to be put into production, even if the Gelveta-Sport was conceived and designed a bit earlier.

Regards, Bill

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Robert Tyss
robtyss
Germany
21 Posts
Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  07:26:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@ Luiz

thets exakt my problem I have font the Second draw in the "russian and soviet camera catalogue" 1840-1991. Is this Kamera real or only a Project for a Prototyp???
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  10:44:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
robtyn,

On page 32 of his book (2nd edition), Princelle calls the Min Reflex a "protoype".

"In 1934, Lebediev and Grebenshikov develop the concept of lens coating.
1933, following MIN's prototype (see p. 40-41), A.O. Gelgar begins to study a 35mm reflex camera, the Gelveta."

In the "Russian and Soviet Camera Catalogue 1840-1991" and in Princelle' main listing, it only says the MIN Reflex was made circa 1929, had a VOOMP lens and had enlarging equipment.

So, I think that this camera was real, as a prototype and maybe a small amount of cameras, but it was not made in very large amounts. Probably only a few. After all, the VOOMP Pioneer had 1000 made and they exist today. The FAG Geodezia had only 100 made and they exist today in collections. But, the very first FED, with only 30 - 40 made can not be found.

So I think if more than one MIN Reflex was made, it would be less than 30.
Until one example is found, or maybe a photograph of one MIN Reflex, we can not be sure that it is the earliest 35mm reflex, even though we (Russian camera collectors and historians) might want it to be.



Regards, Bill


Edited by - nightphoto on Sep 19 2007 10:48:03 AM
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  10:54:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe A.A. MIN's Reflex prototype camera is still hidden away in the closets or the museum of GOI in Leningrad. Or, in the hands of one of the ancestors of A.A. Min !

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4197 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  11:04:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As with a lot of pre-war cameras, and the state of USSR during the war, thousands upon thousands of cameras were destroyed in bombing raids, sunk in rivers, burned, etc.. there is a very little chance that these may surface, as much as we want to hope for it...

Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  11:25:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is very true Vlad and the story is that during one of the cold winters at the time of the siege of Leningrad, hundreds of the GOMZ SPORT cameras were dumped into the river so that the wooden crates they were packed in could be used for firewood. This is supposed to be the reason why they are rare today.

But, very often prototype cameras and special experimental cameras are carefully taken care of by the people at the laboratory that made them, so it is possible that the Min Reflex will some day be found, just as the original Leningrad prototypes have been found!

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4197 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Sep 19 2007 :  11:28:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I would really hope so...

And next time I'm in St.Petersburg, I'm packing my scuba gear to go diving into Neva :).. Line up to get a rusty Sport! :)
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