| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 10:55:55 AM
Yes, it has been that long when I bought my first SLR. And as a school boy it was not easy, because I had to earn that money by working in the summer! Back then SU was still a great country, and many products were sold here in Finland, as we had this bilateral commerce. We exported wood and technology, and imported for example oil and Lada cars. Everybody knew that SU quality was not as great as Japanese, but many times money was more important. It was not long ago that we were a very poor country, and Nokia was still to come!
This will be a story about my alternatives, how I saw them back then, and what led me to buy the Zenit. As you may know, all this started back then, although I would never have guessed it before SU fell down and internet became truly www...
One more reason why I am writing you this now is that I have now gotten all of my alternatives in my vitrine.
Best regards,
Juhani |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 20 2015 : 10:39:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny
Nice story Juhani,
I know it's not finished yet and sorry that I disturb you,
but I wonder how much a Zenit-E was in comparision to the 550 mark Praktica and if a Zenit-B was even available in Finland at that time.
This was back in 1977 and you made your decision for your reasons.
But what would you choose now, with all the knowledge you have now, if you had a chance to be back in 1977 with a strict budget? This question is much more interesting to me, because at that time we didn't had the knowledge to choose the way which suit us best.
With a strict budget I would definitely look for a used camera. Yes I know, everybody wanted to have a SLR at that time, but how wonderful would have been a Fed-2, which was produced till 1970. There should be some used Fed-2 available and at a great price and much smaller than a big SLR.
Thanks 
I never saw Zenit-B for sale here. I think that the difference to E (295 FIM) would have been too narrow to get sales.
And I think that my last post does answer your 2nd question: 122 if I just would get reasonable M42-lenses. At least here it seems that canoners are now paying silly prices for old M42-lenses. A Helios 58mm goes for more than a complete camera some years back!
Kiev-19 if I would be able to use ebay in the purchase, and double the budget. I have many times carried one around as a spare body to F3 (yes, I have had it as main camera twice).
Markets for used SLR were bad here seen from a customers view. A used but pretty good condition SLR cost 70% of original price, so 1000 - 30% = 700 which was a lot more than the EM. There was simply too big demand as SLR was getting very popular, and people started to have extra money after the WWII. 1950ies was a very hard time here, and 60ies people spent the money to houses and such, so in the 70ies they finally started to enjoy a bit. My father used his Retina Ib (which he bought in Germany mid-50ies, praktikant) for 20 years....
FED belongs to another post, yet to come 
Best regards,
Juhani |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 20 2015 : 10:17:17 AM
MIR-20M 20mm/3,5 price 595 FIM
MIR-10A 28mm/3,5 (never seen one in any shop so pseudo-price) 249
Jupiter-9 85mm/2,0 295
Helios 40-2 85/1,5 (this either never seen) 395
Vega-13A 100/2,8 (again, only in price list) 395
Jupiter-11A 135/4,0 249 (existed also in reality!)
Tair-11A 135/2,8 (only in price list) 249
Jupiter 6-2 180/2,8 (not in shops...) 995
Jupiter-21M 200/4,0 395
Tair-3A 300/4,5 495
MTO-500 995
MTO-1000 1.595
What I found other prices in my catalog, a typical price for 28mm, 35mm and 135mm "universal" lenses was 600-700 FIM. So there would have been markets with availability 
Best regards,
Juhani |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 20 2015 : 09:51:00 AM
So the final part of this choosing my 1st SLR, Zenit EM.
As you may already have understood, it was mostly my wallet that made the decision for me. And compared to the (only real alternative) Praktica I preferred the EM's finder & lens. Lens being faster and with closer focus, and a good focus ring which could be grabbed with gloves when it gets to minus degrees Celsius. Some may say that the finder is not so bright, but it has a good matt screen, so depth of field can be seen well. And that has always been important to me. Fast use and fast 1/1000 speed has never been that important, I am not into fast moving objects. And speeds under 1/30 need tripod, which I hated to carry around.
The price was 495 FIM back then, and difference to E was 200, so there I didn't think for long. I have never been a fan with preset aperture, especially with an uncoupled meter. And most lenses were auto, so a preset camera would have meant playing with the A/M-switch on lens.
IIRC the camera came in a cardboard box made of that terrible SU material which breaks into dust from a light touch. Instructions booklet was in Finnish, made most likely here. And naturally the case, which had to be put outdoors for a week to get the smell of leather boots milder. But as a protective case a great one.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2022015_ZenitEM.JPG
The original one was not Olympic as it was bought before that
Lenses: I have always wondered why the lenses were not offered here in reality. Yes, they had prices, and good ones, but no availability. Maybe it was thought, that a normal camera user doesn't buy extra lenses, especially to a cheap camera? Or export lenses were small in quantity? I do remember, that even in London with the great T.O.E. being importer, cameras were common but lenses rare.
In my local shop sometimes I saw a 135mm tele, rarely 20mm wide angle, but never the 37mm lens. MTO also, but they were expensive special lenses. Even Fotosniper was sold here, but not in quantities. So I went for Tamron, and later to cheap Japanese M42-lenses like Sun, Soligor and Vivitar.
I used my EM for a couple of years, and after I got longer and better priced summer jobs, I changed through Fujica to Nikon. Also the camera development was fast in that time. All-manual cameras, uncoupled meters, stopdown-metering, M42: all of those became obsolete very fast, and then came even mode futuristic things like Auto-Focus. So an EM was ancient history compared to an F3-Nikon, which in my opinion is an ultimate film camera.
Then came a period when I sold all my cameras away, but in early 90ies I started photography again. From my past history it was easy to go for a 122 Zenit, as it didn't cost much. Finnish tourists had imported them from Leningrad: in that time busloads traveled to and from there. Cameras were a good currency instead of rubles, usually gotten in trade for nylon stockings, jeans, bubble gum, and everything western. Also used M42-lenses were crazy cheap, as nobody wanted that ancient technology and nostalgia was not yet born. The 122 felt very familiar in my hands as being a CdS-metered EM, although the plastic body looked a bit more modern. In that time not that bad at all!
And after that things slowly began to go totally wrong, ending up with this collecting :)
Some day I will write what other SU cameras were on sale here in Finland...
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| SteveA |
Posted - Feb 19 2015 : 11:17:14 AM
Hi, my first 'good' camera was a Zorki 4k back in 1978. Up to then I had used an Agfa Box, AGI-Lux and Polaroid Super Swinger (ARGHH!) I recall the camera was about £30, which was my week's wages. The lenses were between £25 and £40, the hardest thing to obtain was the Universal Viewfinder (took me 12 months on back order from TOE). Then I bought a Zenit TTL, which had shutter fade, flare in certain light conditions and a not very accurate meter. The Zorki took very good photos, I still have a Zorki 4k, 3M and Zorki 1. Now I tend to use a 1938 Contax III and a Pentacon Six for black and white work - I have an example of every Kiev-Contax from 1948 through to 1981. |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Feb 17 2015 : 10:58:31 AM
Certainly any of us has more or less the same story to tell...
For me, Foca and Canon F1. Then, the taste for collection, mainly through Feds and LTM Leicas. Certainly to "feel" the History behind these cameras...
But thanks to go on your nice story, Juhani... |
| Lenny |
Posted - Feb 17 2015 : 09:11:30 AM
Nice story Juhani,
I know it's not finished yet and sorry that I disturb you,
but I wonder how much a Zenit-E was in comparision to the 550 mark Praktica and if a Zenit-B was even available in Finland at that time.
This was back in 1977 and you made your decision for your reasons.
But what would you choose now, with all the knowledge you have now, if you had a chance to be back in 1977 with a strict budget? This question is much more interesting to me, because at that time we didn't had the knowledge to choose the way which suit us best.
With a strict budget I would definitely look for a used camera. Yes I know, everybody wanted to have a SLR at that time, but how wonderful would have been a Fed-2, which was produced till 1970. There should be some used Fed-2 available and at a great price and much smaller than a big SLR. |
| Will |
Posted - Feb 17 2015 : 05:19:39 AM
Hi Juhani,
Very interesting.
When you are "young" cameras are expensive and out of reach . My first SLR was a black Praktica LLC which my brother in law gave me in 1973 I think. I could never have afforded it, the meter played up sometimes, but I did win a few photo competitions with that camera 
I bought a Nikon EM in 1982, paid 50 pence a week to the shop for it, I couldn't afford an FM and never really got on with the baby Nikon so gave it to my son.
I've now gone full circle leaving digital and returned to Praktica having models from L2 up to BC1.
I also like Russian cameras otherwise I wouldn't be on here! and my most reliable light meter is an old Lenningrad 4.
Interesting that you liked the old Petri.
A nice read.
Will
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| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 12:50:14 PM
So one alternative remains before getting to the main course. And that was Petri.
The "Petri TTL" had almost same looks and specs and was in same price class than Practica STL2, but it was Japanese!
Also the FT-EE was very interesting. That one had automatic exposure and Petri's own lens mount with EE-system. Most intriguing was the pricing, as Petri bayonet lenses were as cheap as universal M42-lenses. And camera itself with normal lens just above the much more simple Cosina.
But back to the reality: I just didn't have so much cash...
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1622015_PetriFTE.JPG
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| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 12:30:14 PM
And the better known brands then?
Pentax had just taken the K-bayonet, so that was out of the question: too expensive lenses. Time for my ME was later, but remained short.
Canon? No way, didn't even like it a bit. Maybe as my brother (older = more money) had one...
Fujica. That would be my love to come after Zenit and before Nikon. And an easy one as it had the M42-mount. But with a price tag equal to two Zenits, which made it impossible as my 1st SLR.
Konica and Minolta, tempting but the lens problem: own mount meant expensive lenses and second hand was not that usual yet.
Ricoh: ugly as XXXX and less camera for the price than Cosina or Fujica for example. No way.
Carena, Chinon, Mamiya: nobody actually sold them in my home town, which was 3rd largest city of Finland then. |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 12:15:57 PM
Part three: Japan?
The only true price rival came from Cosina. And Cosina was here sold in same shop chain than Zenit, which made comparison easy. Cosina was sexy as black in that time when most cameras were "grey" chrome. Even local marketing used same idea calling it Cosina, musta kosija which could be translated as Cosina, the black suitor. At the same time it was here seen as a Pentax copy by those who could afford the more expensive Japanese cameras.
+ Fast 1,8 lens focusing to a close 50 cm.
+ Good finder, and CdS-TTL
- Long and single film advance stroke
+ More typical use of camera than the SU and DDR having their oddities
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1622015_CosinaHiLiteDLR.JPG
The price was just under 900 marks, way over my budget. But not that much more than the Praktica as you might think, and thus making the Praktica a bit uncompetitive. |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 11:00:25 AM
Part one, Praktica LB 2
As I still got Finnish camera catalogs, it is easy for me to check facts like prices. So let me start with dull numbers which were one of the most important criteria for me back then: 550 Finnish marks (350 todays euros).
That was the price for selenium metered wonder from East Germany, as we called DDR. "German" had a very good fame here, so even the eastern part was considered to be best of FSU-world.
+ Shutter speeds from 1 sec to 1/1000
- Meyer Domiplan was only 2,8, so one longer shutter speed "was lost"
- Closest focus 75 cm, far from close distance
- Focus ring too narrow to be handled with gloves
- Chrome finish was poor, all marks were visible and easily gotten
- Film advance only with one stroke
+ Fast film loading
- Shutter release was far from smooth
+ Hot shoe
- Coarse fresnel lens in finder
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1622015_PrakticaLB.JPG
Practica was sold here also as Porst, although we didn't have those Porst-owned or named shops here like in West-Germany. It was just a way to sell the same cameras through Instrumentarium-chain as Porst and as Praktica through individual & independant shops.
And the Super TL 2 with better lens and TTL was around 800 which was far too much for my budget.
To be continued...
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