| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Vlad |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 3:49:02 PM
Where else am I going to brag if not here, eh? :) Today I've received in mail a very interesting Sport camera. I believe this is an earlier version, it is not black like pictured everywhere else, but it's just brushed metal and the faceplate of the reflex housing is brass! Lens Serial #2986, which is about 12000 less than camera uploaded by Aidas...
The images of it are uploaded into the catalog entry so just click on the catalog entry link above on this thread to view them, I've tried to cover every angle.. Let me know your thoughts.. I wonder if anyone ever seen this variation.
Thanks,
Vlad. |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bull Halsey |
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 01:55:04 AM
I guess the $8000 TSVVS would do better on this market rather than the local eBay.
Steve |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 9:16:37 PM
I guess I enjoy what I could afford  , a nice clean Sport can run close to $1000, this one went for $3400! My god!
Vlad |
| Bull Halsey |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 8:28:24 PM
Vlad,
It would appear that you and I own two very unique Sport cameras, even though neither are original.
Steve |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 6:43:23 PM
Hi Bill!
haven't talked to you in a long time :) Thanks for reply! Yea I figured that much, seems like sort of like my own Sport with stripped paint, but this one was taken one step further with re-chroming.. The seller just says that it has unusual silver top, that's all.. no claims of any kind besides that it's the the first year release of 1935-1936 (in which I doubt the 1935 part ).
Vlad |
| nightphoto |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 3:43:15 PM
Princelle mentions a Gelveta-Sport with a chrome front plate, but calls it "non-original" (page 41 ... 2nd edition). I think it is non-original too, but if the lens is original, then it is an early example, so who knows if it could be a variation. What does the seller say?
Regards, Bill
|
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 2:28:04 PM
Umm... guys...what is this?????!!!
http://www.molotok.ru/show_item.php?item=432905626
Did early ones really had no black paint on top or this is a stripped and re-chromed one?
Vlad |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 29 2008 : 6:15:43 PM
Stephan, I'll keep my eyes open for you, there isn't one for sale now but they turn up from time to time...
Vlad |
| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 29 2008 : 6:06:32 PM
yes but how can I find a the missing cassette for the sport... I'll have to build one with the remaining one as exemple ? ;-)
Stephan |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 10:42:16 PM
Bill, Luiz, thanks for the explanations! Yeah I guess if you start counting all the prototypes it gets very confusing and now you start splitting hairs... .. from what I see in Luiz's dates, both Sport and Kine-Exacta started series production in 1936??
Vlad |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 6:26:18 PM
Ihagee introduced the Exakta Model A as the first compact SLR using 127 Roll film in 1933. This is known world over. It is also commonly said abroad that in 1936 the Kine-Exakta was the world's first single lens reflex that used the now standard cine film and the 24x36 mm picture size.
-Ok....
If we can consider the Vest-pocket Exakta the forerunner of the Kine-Exakta, the Min and Gelvetta would also be the forerunner of the Sport.
The MIN, according to J.L. Princelle, was created in 1929. by A.A. Min and it produced 75 pictures of 24x 32mm size. That way, this was the first 35mm SLR, but not the first in 24x 36 size. And its shutter principle, which was also the forerunner of Sport, introduced the metal vertical focal plane shutter on all miniature cameras, and of course 35mm cameras 31 years before the reflex Konica/Copal shutter was first know. but also before the Contax rangefinder from 1932. Several large size cameras had before vertical focal plane shutters but were of fabric type.
The Gelvetta created by A.O. Gelgar was first shown at Sovietkoe Foto at January of 1935, although its series production only begun in 1936. Of course the model shown in 1935, was made in 1934 when still Exakta had only Vest pocket camera types.This was the first 24x36mm SLR.
Note that really this camera was developed in parallel with VOOMP GOI rangefinder of Leica type (S.F. October 1934)
Every detail copiled from J.L. Princelle pg 40 2nd edition.
More than that at Abramov’s site http://www.photohistory.ru/1207248178962562.html
Russia's first (and possible in world) SLR 35mm film camera, produced by Leningrad plant [GOMZ] since 1936. First SLR 35mm film camera in the world with the metal vertical shutter. The format of the frame of 24x36 mm. Low temperature resistant. Speeds 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200, 1/500 s. and ". " [Industar]-10" 3,5/50 lens with bayonet couplings. Automatic exposure counter. Rectangular superstructure with the viewfinder eyepiece located on the upper panel; direct optical viewfinder on the right side of superstructure. Film transport knob with internal speeds dial. The camera uses non standadard 35mm cassettes ,50 frames on 2m film. Removable back. Different production series have different finishes , absence or presence of shoulder strap ears. Size: 133x102x69mm, weight - 820 g. Production: about 20 thousand pieces.
According to the exposed the probability of Sport have been the first camera is great once its roots were born in 1929 when the Exakta name still did't already exist .
Regards.
LP
|
| nightphoto |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 4:19:55 PM
Vlad,
There is a long time controversy as to whether SPORT is the first 35mm single lens reflex to be produced and much has been written about it. From what I gather, it seems that the Ihagee Kine-Exakta was the first 35mm SLR actually produced in series production and sold on the open market, although many think that SPORT existed as a prototype a small time (a few months) earlier than the Exakta.
So far, I think no one has proven that Ihagee Kine-Exakta was produced in prototype earlier than SPORT and also no one has proved that SPORT was released to the public before the Exakta.
So ... the controversy over which was first still exists ... mostly depending on whether you are mostly a collector of Russian cameras or a collector of German cameras ... and what you mean by "first".
There may have even been earlier prototypes of 35mm SLR cameras made ... but never produced in series (Reflex by A.A. Min ... see Princelle page 40, and there were others in other countries, I think ... maybe Luiz knows this).
Regards, Bill
|
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 3:14:44 PM
I want to address the release date of Sport:
According to Princelle's timeline the Sport was released on 1937 on the 20th anniversary of the Revolution.
According to a U. Ryzhkov's book "Short History of Soviet Camera (1929-1991)" production of Sport started in 1935 with Kine-Exacta was just announced...
Also heard stories of camera being released in 1936 within weeks of release of Kine-Exacta..
Popular Photography magazine (USA) back in 1970s had published that Russians had developed the first 35mm SLR in the world (meaning Sport)..
Now, who has the final word? Is at this point JLP considered the canon for the timeline?
Vlad |
| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 3:19:28 PM
in fact it's the two sonnar lenses that interest me... they are wartime early T lenses... and I collect them specially (in both LTM and contax mount...). in fact I collect all pre 46 T lenses... ;-)
Stephan |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 10:38:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by stephanvdz
nice answer... by the way is your kiev kit still to sell?
Stephan
I was asked to stop kit sales few month ago, but nothing have happened since then ... so trade/sales are still possible ...
Regards,
Aidas
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| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 10:27:48 AM
nice answer... by the way is your kiev kit still to sell?
Stephan |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 04:12:17 AM
Stephan,
If I remember correctly, I have one spare Sport cassette in my collection ... Do you have spare VOOMP Pionier cassette for possible trade? 
Best regards,
Aidas
|
| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 03:50:31 AM
and fruthermore I don't speak or read or write russian... so molotok is not very usable...
Stephan |
| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 03:48:10 AM
the cassette ;-) that looks like l'aiguille dans la botte de foin...
Hope I'll find one cassette...
Stephan |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:32:25 PM
Stephan,
Congratulations to you. A very rare and desirable camera. I wish you good luck in your search for a film cassette.
Regards, Jim. |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:22:17 PM
Hi Vlad,
My apologies, I should have checked the date of your first post. Nevertheless my congatulations still stand, though now belatedly!
Regards, Jim. |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:04:12 PM
Hi Jim,
Thank you! But I think it's Stephan who should be congratulated now, I've got my Sport about 6 months ago and this thread is really old .
Cheers,
Vlad |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 10:40:34 PM
Vlad,
Congratulations! In my book this is one of the most collectible, rare, and historically important cameras in the world, and you are very fortunate to be the owner.
I agree with Bill's comments about the modifications to the camera. It doesn't matter that the camera is not in totally original condition as it left the factory. The changes are honest attempts to improve the camera. They just add character, and show that the camera has been used and has been an important part of the previous owners life. I'm sure that you will cherish this camera just as the original owners did.
Best wishes, Jim. |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 5:55:38 PM
Sometimes I see them on Russian eBay - molotok.ru, but they cost around $50-$60...
Vlad |
| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 5:06:10 PM
I found a nice working one around here (in Belgium... ) but one of the film cartridge is missing. Is there one available somewhere ?
Will send pics of the camera next week...
Stephan
Stephan |
| Vlad |
Posted - Dec 21 2007 : 11:02:05 AM
So after a conversation with Bill Parkinson about this weird Sport camera that I have, he performed a very in-depth analysis of it that I had been able to confirm step by step... here's what Bill found (quoting his findings):
quote:
* It is an early camera. I have SPORT # 2792 so it is easy to compare with yours as they are close in manufacture.
* The GOMZ logo is missing, probably broke (as it is made of glass and I have seen many cracked ones) and was taken out when the camera was taken apart.
* Looks like some remnants of black paint around the logo window and elsewhere on the brass front, so probably the paint was taken off and left as brass, which has tarnished.
* This lens is probably original to the camera. I say this because your body, like mine, has just two screws holding the top plate on. Earlier version has six screws holding the top plate on.
* The aluminum trim was no doubt painted black originally and was probably also finished when it showed wear and the metal showed through the black paint.
*Looking at the top reflex housing, it has had the black leather covering replaced in a non-original manner, leaving the top surface and the corners of the housing bare and showing the metal. Originally the leather would have covered the top and the side corners, covering the housing completely.
* The lens mount and the part of the lens that has the distance scale has had the original chrome plating polished off, showing the brass underneath.
* The shutter button has been altered, as has the hole in the body that accommodates the button. The hole has been enlarged and a black threaded ring has been fitted to the shutter button socket, probably to fit a type of cable release which has those kind of threads.
* The cassettes are not original to the camera.
So, my opinion is that what you have is the type of heavy modification done at home by the user. Probably some of it done to fix the camera and some to make it look better after it had received heavy wear. There was also probably the urge, on the part of the person who made these changes, to make the camera look more modern (ie. to make it look more like a FED or Zorki with chrome and metal showing, than like the all black cameras of the past).
Personally, I like cameras that have been modified during their history, if it was done by the people who owned it and used it and not by someone in modern times just trying to make it look different in some way to get more money or make something that is easy to sell. This camera shows a lot of honest history.
So I guess it's not a variation but a modification! Very interesting, and thank you very much Bill, and thank you for letting me share your findings with the members of this forum, your expert opinion is always highly valued!
Vlad |
| Vlad |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 8:48:14 PM
Wow! But Luiz, I know people saw Sport before, I meant did anyone see one in this variation? Not black?
Vlad |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 8:22:53 PM
This camara was known by me around ten years ago when a collector bought it in Europe and brought it to Brazil.
A frien of us who lived in East Germany around 1946 said he had at leas four of them. I was fascinated by the simplicity and reliability of the shutter mechanics, which deliver further development towards compactness But see! this is clamed to be the firat 35mm reflex camera OK .... but none says that "Sport" was the first to have vertical lamelar metal focal plane shutter some 25 years earlier than the claimed first Copal on Konica Reflex of 1960! |
| okynek |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 7:16:21 PM
Vlad congradulation with new arrival!!! I sow this camera too. I was to chicken to buy it. I was not sure if it authentic. |
