| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| okynek |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 9:24:18 PM
I know 'A' and 'B' numbered Kievs are special in ways what yet to be discover, but what about FED?
I have FED-2 what is usual in every way, except serial number. It begins with 'A'. Any reasons for it?
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 3:38:33 PM
Hi Jacques,
thanks a lot for your message! Your information only confirms, that we are moving the right direction indeed ...  Today I have heard a story, that one serious collector in Moscow would like to sell a complete (!!!) collection of FED-2 cameras. Let's wait for more details, ok? Who said, that Fed-2 is a really dull camera for collectors? 
Best Regards,
Aidas |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Sep 16 2009 : 05:38:46 AM
Hi Aidas!
You are right: too many Fed 2 with engraving mistakes in one collection would be too much!
I have in my datas the serial number 9022191 which is exactly the same as your 9022351: new range speed and low accessory shoe. I think too they were made just before the "A": the very first "A" have the same low shoe (and the new range speed).
Till now, I had an hypothesis. As we know, Fed had decided to use the first cipher as the symbol of the year. But they could have been "short" with numbers if they had produced too many Fed 2. Hence these strange 9022191 and 9022351 (after 9000001, 9000002, etc.)
But this hypothesis cannot be valid if we only find serial numbers beginning with 9022xxx and nothing before! So, I don't know
I go on digging!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Sep 08 2009 : 06:15:48 AM
Hi,
let me show you one more oddity about Fed-2 numbering systems ...
It's really believable, that the 1st million of total Fed-2 cameras have ended with serial number #0999.999, right? Following to our investigation results (special thanks to Jacques again!), the 2nd million should be started with 100.000 units of prefix "A" cameras, right?
My hypotesis is, just before FED have decided to use "A" prefixes for the first 100.000 cameras of 2nd million, a limited batch of Fed-2 cameras with strange serial numbers have entered the market. The same 7-digits serial number, but serial numbering system is changed again. And this system doesn't fit our theory in any ways ... Let me show you camera #9022351 ... which seems to be the bridge between Fed-2 cameras of '50ies and '60ies indeed.
One more engraving mistake, Jacques? May be, but I don't really think so. Too many unique cameras in one collection ... . If it's mistake however, the serial number should look like #9922351, since #0922351 doesn't fit again, right?
Sorry for my bad english, I've tried to explain the best I can.
Best Regards,
Aidas
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/892009_fed2_9022351.jpg
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| gb hill |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 10:13:50 AM
To Aidas, I wish to say I enjoyed your site & gained much info I didn't know concerning the Fed 2. I never even noticed the trim around the v/f until you pointed that out in the different production runs. Too bad the serial numbers are not as easily understandable as the Zorki models, but I think you have it sorted out pretty well.
cheers, gb |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 06:50:46 AM
Hello!
For the moment, your camera is unique, Aidas, for sure!
It will be interesting to know if there are other cameras like yours, beginning with A19xxxx. I always think it's an accident, and the correct number should be A09xxxx. It wouldn't be the first time there are mistakes at Fed's!
So, if I am not wrong, the following numbers, after A099999, should be 1100000. But it must always be proved!
Keep your camera preciously!
For the other question, I think too that changes were not made at a precise serial number, but on a range which can extend to some thousands of numbers. It was already the case with Fed 1 (including post war ones). And the different jumps of serial numbers don't render the task easier...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 04:16:54 AM
To Jacques,
if my camera #A197404 comes with engraving mistake in the serial number, this circumstance makes it really unique, what do you think?
to gb hill,
thanks for your question about camera #1248672! All numbers in my classifier are approximate, I'm sure you know the reason why? Knowing, that the 1st digit in the serial number indicates the year of manufacture (1 stands for 1961), our cameras #248672 and #251006 are very close sisters indeed ... Thanks to your sample, I will change my serial numbers range a little bit, though there are at least few cameras (for example - #1252217, sold on eBay in 2008), which are certain type-D4 cameras indeed ...
Best Regards,
Aidas |
| gb hill |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 11:23:38 PM
According to Soviet Cams I have a Fed2 typeD5. It has the modern ss of 30th 60th etc. Mine is without the decorative trim around the v/f. The problem is the author of the site list the serial numbers range: #2250.000-#2320.000 with #2251.006 to be the earliest. My Fed 2's #1248672.This should make mine a typeD4. So what I gather is that during the D4's run they already started using the non decorative top plate as seen on the later D5's production run. Interesting I thought. Oh and my Fed came with the chrome N26 52/2.8 lens. |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 11:27:59 AM
Hi Aidas!
Thanks for this serial # A197404 (added in the wiki)which doesn't follow the rule!
Perhaps it's only a mistake: A197404 engraved instead of 097404. For the moment, it could be the exception which confirms the rule...
Of course, if there are other exceptions...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 11:38:28 AM
Merci, Aidas!
Jacques. |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 3:49:08 PM
Hi Jacques,
just wanted to say my special thanks for your theory about "A" prefixes and other Fed-2 classifying - I have spent two days to check it .... and you are right indeed ... ! I have found some consistent patterns, but unfortunately all my material is on my office computer, so no comments riht now ...
Best regards,
Aidas |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 07 2008 : 07:19:37 AM
Hi Zhang!
Sorry to say I'm not qualified for that new work!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
| Kievuser |
Posted - Oct 07 2008 : 04:41:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
So, the A serie would exactly take the place of the 1-0xxxxx range, kept for the first 3a.
To be clear, that time!
And if i'm not wrong...
Amitiés. Jacques.
I have to say that this is a 'very close to truth' assumption.
I wish you could also solve the mystery of 'B' prefix Kiev III?
Kind Regards
Zhang |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 07 2008 : 03:12:40 AM
So, the A serie would exactly take the place of the 1-0xxxxx range, kept for the first 3a.
To be clear, that time!
And if i'm not wrong...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 10:38:22 AM
Hi Luiz,
It's only a theory...
It sticks not too bad with all the Fed 2 I have seen these last weeks on eBay and elsewhere.
And it would explain why some Fed 2 were prefixed by A (the range
1-Oxxxxx was taken by the 3a) and why the A was abandoned (the range 1-1xxxxx was available some months later).
For sure, I never thought your observation was excludent!
Amitiés. Jacques.
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 10:09:21 AM
Jacques
Very interesting your theory; but please do not understand as being my observation as an excludent one, of course A series were built at the same time of other no A series cameras
LP |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 08:18:12 AM
Hello Luiz!
I won't exactly follow you.
In fact, I think that all the A were made at the same time.
Here is my (!) version.
No problem for Fed from 1955 to 1959-1960: serial numbers are ordinal numbers. They are all preceded by N° as for the Fedka series. The last # number I found: 850703 which is a 2c with rim round the rangefinder and low accessory shoe.
Then in 1960-1961 (more or less 1 year), we have some different and probably consecutive numbering systems, certainly because of the two other cameras in production: the Zarya and the Fed 3.
First (perhaps!): a ciphered system beginning by 9 (9874463 for ex: always a 1c with rim, 1/25th, one engraving and low shoe). The "N°" disappears in front of the number and we won't find it again.
Then the cipher becomes "0" (0978307 for ex. Always the same as the 9874463, but with 1/30th instead of 1/25th). If we read these numbers 9-874463 and 0-978307, we find again the ordinal number which gives the production (it's my guess!).
Then a problem. We are not far from 1 million Fed 2 really built, and the last cipher cannot allow to write 1-00000x which is the scale chosen for the 3a first version. So, taken by urgency, Fed uses an A prefix. First known: A006451 with low shoe, then stepped shoe for the other we know. Till now, all Fed 2 will have high shoes. Probably c. 100000 Fed "A" produced in 1961, I think.
After, several numbering jumps are made for the 3, so that Fed can re-utilize the 1-1xxxxx scale. We are perhaps always in 1961.
Then the 2-3xxxxx scale. I think that the 2 gives the year, so 1962 (I have no proof!) and the 3xxxxx the production. These cameras have no rim now, always the 1/30th and the stepped shoe of course. It's in that scale that I discover the first two engraved body.
After that, the 3-, 4- and 5- series: nothing to say. Years 1963 to 1965 I guess.
During all these years (since 1960), the number of production grows continuously, without interruption (as it seems!) behind the cipher. I have not found any exception. And it will continue with the following years.
No problem for 1966 which is prefixed "6". For 1967 (the anniversary!), Fed probably think that it could be fine to use a "67" prefix, so that they keep the "6" for these two years. It could explain why there is no camera with the "7" prefix. Total production: 758406 cameras (since 1960-61?), last number I found with the "6" prefix.
Then the 8 prefix, for the last Fed 2-s. We find the 2e in that scale (but in other scales too which don't belong to the regular 2). It's possible that this cipher was used for the last three years of production: 1968 to 1970 (about 100000 Fed 2 produced).
It's all I have found about the numberings of Fed2-s. No doubt the very rare passports don't help. I tried to make my suppositions as consistent as possible, but they are only suppositions! And we don't have many numbers with the 9-, 0-, and 1- systems...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 8:59:18 PM
Hello Jacques
I said Plain frame finder cameras were made from 1969 (1968?). embossed frame finder , before this date. That means that A , variants which all have embossed frames are previous to 1969. but they were produces during a long period because they were numbered in low and high shoes but always in 1/30-1/60-1/125 shutters (post 1960 era).
I believe that high shoes came around 1965, that way, as low shoes A types are rarer, but exists, we can pehaps date the A variants around 1964 or 1963 and pehaps limit its periond around 1963-1967?
any suggestions?
amicalement
LP |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 07:29:26 AM
Well Zhang, why "A"? I don't know exactly!
I think it could be useful to know all the features of these "A" to classify them amongst the production. And the Fed 2 you show is really very interesting: it has the 1/30th instead of 1/25th for the "c". So, it's probably an early "d" without stepped shoe. As far as we know, the other ones beginning by 02xxxx to 09xxxx do have this stepped shoe and are similar to the "d" described and pictured in the JLP.
Now, a possibility. I always think that Fed could have some problems with their classification in 1961 with the introduction of the "3" and the production of the Zarya. So at that time, they would have introduced a ciphered numeration. That famous "A" would have been the first element for this new classification. But why didn't they go on with that A (and other letters)and they used digits? I don't know!
But I can be completely wrong...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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| Kievuser |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 06:17:08 AM
Hi Jacques,
I borrowed another image.This is the top view with lens. The question is why "A"?
Cheers,
Zhang |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 03:30:22 AM
Hi Zhang,
So, this "A" would be the first we know (for the moment!)and a "c" type, after the classification of JLP. The other "A"-s all seem "d" type, with the stepped shoe. But it would be useful to have a look at the speed scale of this A too: 1/30th for the d, 1/25th for the c... As for the lens, I think by the # that it's a F410.
To Luis: I thought till now that these "A"s were at the crossroads between the cardinal and the ciphered numberings, and at the beginning of 1d-s, so that they could have been made in 1961 (more or less one year!). If I understand well, you think they were made in 1969?
Second question: what do you call "embossed frame" opposed to "plain frame"? Always my English!
Merci. Amitiés. Jacques. |
| Kievuser |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 02:06:07 AM
Hi Jacques,
The s/n of the camera is A006451, and the lens 1048080.
Kind Regards
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
Hi Zhang,
Very interesting!
Can you tell the serial number I cannot read?
Do you have too the type and number of the lens?
Thanks. Jacques.
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 3:46:11 PM
The "A" mystery:
All my known A numbered have invariably the embossed rectangular frame. Further models (plain frames) with two script FED and of course steppedd shoe, has no "A" numbers.- those date from 1969.
New speed scale, begun in 1960, together Zaria models.
LP |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 02:28:30 AM
Hi Zhang,
Very interesting!
Can you tell the serial number I cannot read?
Do you have too the type and number of the lens?
Thanks. Jacques. |
| Kievuser |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 01:59:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kievuser
As far as I can see, A series Fed-2 has re-desigend top plate.:-)
I have to correct myself. I just saw a 'A' serial Fed-2 with the old top plate. So the mystery remains.
 |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Sep 07 2008 : 05:33:38 AM
Ha ha, Alain, THAT is the question!
But perhaps it would be easier to answer "when", at least for the moment.
If we could complete the wiki about the serial numbers of "A" and lenses (I insist on the lenses) it would give us an approximation about the date of making. For example, I have in my hands my A078285 with its F410 # 1260371: if I can find somewhere a F410 not far from that number with a passport... Of course, the sellers could have mixed lenses and bodies, so it's important to have many serial numbers in the wiki.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=99&ParentID=1&ContentID=1057&Item=Fed+2+with+A+prefix
As for the question WHY, this was probably a special series, inside the 2d one. If somebody knew about the records of the factory...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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| mermoz37 |
Posted - Sep 06 2008 : 11:36:10 AM
I possess one too ....and this last month 3 of them are crossing my hands for friends (Michel, Jacques D....)
for all of us ....the question is : why "A" ? |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Sep 05 2008 : 04:46:56 AM
Hello,
I've just opened a new section in the wiki about these cameras: okynek had suggested to do so and I think it is a good idea.
It would be useful too to put the series of the lens (and its serial number)in the listing: it could help us to understand better this strange camera by comparison with ordinary 2d-s.
Amitiés. Jacques.
PS to Vlad: I asked for removing the main picture. In fact, it is good and belongs to the right camera, but the second one, showing the serial number, would have been better in the title... Possible to invert? Sorry! |
| okynek |
Posted - May 08 2008 : 8:35:42 PM
Should we start collect serial numbers?
May be some pattern will be discowered? |
| Frankl |
Posted - May 08 2008 : 2:54:05 PM
I have FED 2 #A086535 (Very close to the one Aidas has). Also has re-designed top cover (high accessory mounting shoe). "Mushroom" winder, self timer and flash connection in top cover also. |
| okynek |
Posted - Mar 19 2008 : 8:21:54 PM
Sorry for delay with pictures. Yes my is "fully loaded" with selftimer and flash light sync.
 |
| moving_electron |
Posted - Mar 17 2008 : 10:51:30 AM
I have a Fed2 with Serial number A088264.
On another forum a person posted some research that showed the A026xxx-A087xxx to be in the 1963-1969 timeframe. Mine must be from around that 1969 timeframe I would suppose.
The further claim is that this makes it a Fed C3 or D. Mine has sync, with selftimer, mushroom knob, new speeds, name in cyrillic (only).
So yours likely has the same features? |
| Kievuser |
Posted - Mar 16 2008 : 06:28:04 AM
As far as I can see, A series Fed-2 has re-desigend top plate.:-) |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Mar 15 2008 : 12:17:26 PM
Already seen that several times...
I've never read any explanation...
Jacques. |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Mar 15 2008 : 01:46:02 AM
I do possess such camera #A086954 ... |
| Vlad |
Posted - Mar 15 2008 : 12:52:02 AM
oh no!!! |
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