| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 20 2008 : 9:42:21 PM
Submitted the F-21 to get some exposure for this site, vote! 
http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2008/04/submissions_rare_gadgets
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| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nightphoto |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 8:53:41 PM
Thanks for the link, Zoom.
A very interesting article by Vladimir Alekseenko. It helps to put these cameras in historical context and show some facts about their technical development. I translated it from Russian using Google. I can see that it is where Abramov got much of his information and it goes into greater detail than he does.
Vlad there are other disguises for F-21 also, and I think most (but not all) are made by the "special workshop" for KGB, because most of these disguises have serial numbers that are similar in style, as are the technical mechanics and the parts. But no doubt when the F-21 was used by a different foreign service in another Communist Block nation or nation friendly to the Soviets, they sometimes had to improvise the disguise devices used with the F-21. Of course the Stasi in East Germany was also quite sophisticated in their technical surveillance skills and made some modifications and add-ons to F-21 cameras.
Regards, Bill
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| Zoom |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 5:32:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
I think Zoom is saying that Abramov got this information about Ayaks from another source, called "The AYaKS History". I would be interested to know about this book or site.
Yes. This is Vladimir Alekseenko's historical work.
A very pressed text from his article you may read there: http://www.menswork.ru/Journal21/journal_21_46-51.htm |
| Zoom |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 4:58:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Zoom, we read the same sites  ...
No... G. Abramov have the same source... ;) |
| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:32:00 PM
Yuri,
I believe these camouflage items are sometimes custom-made by one or the other agency using it...
So far known to me are:
Coat Button
Women's purse
Camera Case
Quartz Movie Camera (technically made for Nailon, but I'm still including it)
Belt Buckle
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| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:25:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by fedka
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
According to Abramov, the прикрытие is proper term used at the time for the attachments or camouflage accessories for Ajax cameras.
This makes sense. I would be very interesting to get a list of these accessories.
I should use 'preview' more often:-) It should read:
It would be very interesting to get a list of these accessories. |
| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:23:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
According to Abramov, the прикрытие is proper term used at the time for the attachments or camouflage accessories for Ajax cameras.
This makes sense. I would be very interesting to get a list of these accessories. |
| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 2:55:16 PM
According to Abramov, the прикрытие is proper term used at the time for the attachments or camouflage accessories for Ajax cameras. |
| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 2:50:06 PM
I apologize for my mistake. Ficus-3 is not a "finish", but some other characteristics.
I misred "prikrytie" as "pokrytie".
"Pokrytie" would mean "finish" or "covering".
But what does "prikrytie" mean? Any guesses (for the Russian-speaking)?
Vlad noted it as camouflage, which is close enough. maybe they meant the attachment type? Like the button attachment? or maybe this camera went into a pot with a ficus plant? Ficus was a common indoors plant in the USSR.
I am about take my irony back:-)
I wish we could find more passports and see what other "prikrytie" was available. |
| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 2:38:27 PM
It was services at that army base. And I guess "Army base" is a code name for some KGB shop.
First time they replaced a paper washer, and three other times after that the camera was checked and found in compliance with the spec.
Interestingly, the camera had its own record document, just like a plane or a helicopter. Regular maintenance, and such. This is because it was so important and critical! What is the camera fails while shooting some foreign tourists on the Red Square?
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| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 1:54:52 PM
Bill,
Well short of the Ficus-3 camouflage name and that it was used in Army Base 1217-P, there isn't much new information.... |
| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 11:49:32 AM
Great, I found the pages:-) This is really top secret information - a passport for the camera with its service records. I wonder what would happen if Americans ever discovered this document...
I can't believe how meticulous the Russians were when it came to KGB and other oppression/enforcement business.
Just look at the document. It specifies "covering" as "Ficus-3". Ficus my a$$. I wonder what other finishes they had. I can imagine this secret engineering department, a meeting there, with an agenda "how do we name the finish of this F-21?".
- Major Ivanov, your opinion?
- Daizy?
- No, too girly... And you, Lieutenant-Colonel Petrov?
- Oak?
- Better.. But let me consult with Comrade Andropov (picking up a red phone with a USSR seal on it) ... he said it has to be Ficus. No, Ficus-3.
I wonder what Ficus-1 and Ficus-2 look like.
Was it worth it? The country collapsed, film is practically gone...
Some cell phone cameras can produce better pictures than the Ayaks.
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| nightphoto |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 11:28:25 AM
Vlad,
I think Zoom is saying that Abramov got this information about Ayaks from another source, called "The AYaKS History". I would be interested to know about this book or site.
So, what can you Russian speakers tell us non-Russian speakers about new information that is shown in Alain's very nice passport book for F-21? I can see that finally we see that F-21 serial number 76363 was recorded into service on June 30, 1962. What else can we learn?
Regards, Bill
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| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 10:47:27 AM
Zoom, we read the same sites ...
Yuri, I've posted all pages of that document (Alain emailed them to me) to the F-21 Wiki Entry. http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?ImageID=3327&ParentID=1&WikiCatID=46&ContentID=179
Vlad |
| fedka |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 10:27:58 AM
Alain, can you post all pages? This is a "top secret" document, how often do we have a chance to see what's inside:-)?
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| Zoom |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 10:16:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
... It certainly would not look good for an agent to be caught with Soviet equipment on them!
The F-21 was not developed for the "domestic market", but for "domestic use" by police and KGB.
You are absolutely right. There were not an idiots in the Soviet foreign intelligence service (and in the GDR one, etc. too)... ;) |
| Zoom |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 10:00:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
I'll go by your guys' expertise, but why do I keep finding them all over the eastern Europe then? In large quantities too?
"Special services of the countries of the Warsaw Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance (and also the countries of the third world, the countries-friends and partners of the USSR) also actively applied these cameras in various operative actions, sometimes using separate units to installation in the domestic special systems of hidden photographing..." (from "The AYaKS history")
P.S. As I see, Vlad found this text too, but in the Abramov's site ;)...
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| mermoz37 |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 4:11:01 PM
here are....now , I hope so 
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/kgb2.jpg
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| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 2:35:40 PM
Alain, are there more pages? |
| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 2:33:35 PM
Quoting G. Abramov here:
Фотоаппараты серии "Аякс" использовались подразделениями КГБ и МВД, а также другими специальными службами СССР практически до конца 90-ых годов. Спецслужбы стран Варшавского Договора, а также стран третьего мира, стран-друзей и партнеров СССР, не менее активно применяли "Аяксы" в различных оперативных мероприятий, иногда используя отдельные узлы для установки в свои отечественные специальные системы негласного фотографирования. Учитывая большой период эксплуатации, широкую географию применения и огромный практический опыт использования, можно с уверенностью назвать фотоаппарат "Аякс" самым массовым советским специальным фототехническим устройством 20-го века.
Cameras series "Ajax" used by the KGB and MVD offices, as well as other specialized services by the end of the Soviet Union almost 90 - s the. Special services of Warsaw Pact countries, as well as countries of the third world countries, friends and partners, the Soviet Union, no less actively used "Ayaks" in various operational activities, sometimes using local made custom parts to be installed to be used in cladestine photography. Given the long period of exploitation, the application of the wide geography and vast practical experience in use, it can safely be called a camera "Ajax" the most massive Soviet special photographic device of the 20th century.
Советские фотоаппараты "Аякс", модифицированные технической службой МГБ ГДР
Soviet cameras "Ajax" modified MGB technical service GDR(East Germany!!)
(Photohistory.ru - http://www.photohistory.ru/Ajax-series.html )
Sorry for raw google translation by I've corrected it where I could... |
| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 2:26:46 PM
Alain, please make sure there are no space characters in your image file names, they will not appear correctly.
Thanks!
Bill,
I see or get offers for F-21 in quantities from Czech, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Poland.
I probably have overstated (I admit saying that these cameras were used in western countries by KGB agents, but they were used in those countries either by KGB or exported for their own security services (KGB subdivisions) to be used there. So that clearly does not qualify for "domestic use only" (Sorry Zoom). I believe I have read that on Abramov's site.. I will try to find the exact article.
Cheers,
Vlad
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| mermoz37 |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 1:55:18 PM
here are pictures.........
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/kgb 1.jpg
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| cedricfan |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 12:53:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto But mostly, I see them being sold from FSU countries, with many coming from Belarus and Ukraine.
Propably it is because especially Ukrainian sellers are more western & capitalistic than Russian
Smena rules |
| mermoz37 |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 11:30:02 AM
domestic use ??, hummmm... let's look at this document....(whith official wax security seal)...
As you know, I do not read and understand Russian letters and language...so i can make a mistake....
If Vlad or anyone can translate and explain my document ...i will be very happy...
(this document came from St Pet. whith a very used and old F 21)
sorry for this 7 pages if not interesting  
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/
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| nightphoto |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 11:05:16 AM
Probably after the Soviet Union was ended and when the KGB was disbanded, many F-21 cameras and their disguises went into private hands instead of being destroyed. Then, like many Soviet cameras, they may have been brought over to the eastern European countries for sale. But mostly, I see them being sold from FSU countries, with many coming from Belarus and Ukraine. Of course you can even find them in the USA now ;-).
Which Eastern European countries do you see large quantities of F-21 coming from?
Regards, Bill
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| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 10:47:32 AM
I'll go by your guys' expertise, but why do I keep finding them all over the eastern Europe then? In large quantities too? |
| nightphoto |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 10:38:50 AM
Hi Vlad,
As Zoom says, the F-21 was used in the Soviet Union by the KGB and other agencies, for surveillance. When an agent had to use cameras for operations outside of the country, they would have probably been equipped with a camera that was not Soviet, such as a Minox. It certainly would not look good for an agent to be caught with Soviet equipment on them!
The F-21 was not developed for the "domestic market", but for "domestic use" by police and KGB.
Regards, Bill
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| Vlad |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 10:12:04 AM
Hi Zoom, good to hear from you!
Zorki 4 was not one of our posts, but I'm pleased somebody did post it.
Regarding F-21, yes of course, "officially" it was developed for the domestic market.
Vlad |
| Zoom |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 06:05:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Submitted the F-21 to get some exposure for this site, vote!
http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2008/04/submissions_rare_gadgets
From that page:
quote:
KGB F-21 Spy camera by Vladislav Kern (USSRPhoto.com):
Developed at the height of the cold war for the KGB this camera was essential to the stealthy intelligence operations of the Soviets in the Western world.
Nope. For domestic affairs only.
quote:
Zorki 4 by Leon :
Everyone knows Leicas. But very few people know the sowiet 1:1 copycats named "Zorki".
The Zorki 4 is a copy of the Leica III and was produced in the late 1950ies. Mine is from 1959 and works still like a charm.
Nope. Zorki-4 was not a copy of Leica III.
About "the sowiet 1:1 copycats" see http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/leica.htm for example or the book "300 Leica Copies" by Patrice-Herve Pont and Jean-Loup Princelle. Not only Zorkies are there...
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