| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 8:20:40 PM
Boris Strikes again!
http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-Sport-absolutely-unknown-Model_W0QQitemZ370063363752QQihZ024QQcategoryZ15234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I believe this is /was from Mr. Abrig collection.
Regards
LP |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| okynek |
Posted - Jun 30 2008 : 9:14:35 PM
From long time ago, way before revolution, Russian was famous for fake art, pictures, sculptures, antics. Fake items was done so well, in such details, with all signes of aging that best of experts was shaking they heads. Could be same old school now making cameras to?  |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 30 2008 : 11:55:34 AM
Hey people
I did see various of these cameras The first one I saw was sold at a very low price around 100 bucks in 1995 at Chisties auction. The second one was from Mr Abrig collection. From them various auctions offered different cameras of this same type. One recently I posted from Westlich Auction.
I find these fakes marvellous. At Starii Arbat Street in Moscow there is a shop who sells only old Russian cameras I was astonished with a "Stereo Doppel Leica" owned by Dr. Barnack .... Fake of course.. But had no signs of being made from Zorki or FED. It had fake original Leica parts- incliding the Elmar lenses, Industar of course from the blue coatings but with original diaphagm placing ehing the front lens of the triplet and not behind the negative element as on original Industars. The painting was also convincing.....only 800 bucks. The highest priced camera of the shop!
Being a fake or not.. it was a really piece of art!
LP |
| fedka |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 7:35:55 PM
Well said Okynek.
This FED-Sport is surely a unique piece. Its description is vague enough to be fully legitimate. He does not imply it was made by FED or KMZ. The price is a price - I respect free market and Boris can ask as much as he wants. If there is a buyer, the price is right, if there are no buyers - it is probably too high.
This particular camera was made as a treat for a person who wants it. Maybe it is a bit silly with all the embellishments, but it is surely well made. I objected its silliness - it is not a "sport" camera and I did not like the mix of symbols on it. But hey, I amd not buying it:-)
Yuri
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| okynek |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 2:42:14 PM
It's probably matter by historical point of view that some of his cameras are "fake", as we call them,
but these particular cameras are so well made that to me is not much difference between such cameras
and prototypes made by the factory. They are unique, professionally made, and great looking, hopefully
they are works, and most importantly for me as a collector that they represent very strange, and hard,
and interesting epochal of Perestroika, of dismantle of the USSR, of sudden capitalism; and this cameras
are consequences of such changes. Such cameras tell more stories then real would have.
This is a dream cameras, the only bad thing that they have dream prices.
But at list I can look on they pictures
And I absolutely agreed that if seller suspects that camera is not made by original manufacture,
seller must say so. Other vise it called conart. To bad that seller does not understand
that quality and uniqueness of the product yield the price not fake engravings.
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| nightphoto |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 11:44:24 AM
I don't think that the camera Boris has, and is calling "Leningrad Prototype", is either a prototype of the Leningrad or a "TSVVS 2". I would guess from looking at the details that it is more likely a prototype from Zavod Arsenal. We have discussed this camera before. Boris will not be giving more explanation about his example. It would be much better to call this camera an "unknown prototype" than to keep calling it "TSVVS 2" which is misleading (as is the Wiki entry on our site for this camera), and certainly Boris is also wrong to call it a Leningrad Prototype!
Regards, Bill
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 09:06:06 AM
Once all agree Boris has fantasy prices and poor descriptions, why believe The probably TSVVS2 could be a Leningrad?
Waiting explanations..........
Regards LP |
| Zoom |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 05:00:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by fedka
I'd call this FED-Borscht. They threw everything in it - FED, KMZ logo, HUGE hammer, HUGE sickle, low serial number.
Solyanka -- is better name (solyanka is a sharp soup on the meat either fish or mushroom broth, uniting components of a russian cabbage soup (cabbage, sour cream) and a rassolnik (pickles, a cucumber brine) with addition of such seasonings, as olives, capers, lemons, kvass, salty etc.)... ;)
Btw., they forgot a star!.. |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 11:53:20 PM
I agree, (but only to a certain point) that fakes can be rare, desirable, and interesting.
That said they are like a disease in the market place, especially when the sellers know perfectly well that these cameras are faked and are not honest enough to say so because they want to make money. To me this is dishonest and criminal. The innocent collector can purchase an object for ten times it's true value in the belief that it is something genuine.
Nowadays there is a lot of very, very sophisticated engineering equipment easily available, and providing the faker has some basic engineering skills it is not difficult to set up a small workshop capable of producing fakes or copies virtually identical to the original, or even some unique items that nobody has ever seen before. But if you then put a well known brand name on that item you are a criminal.
I must admit that I am myself guilty of encouraging fakes because in the past I have bought two fake "Leica's", but at least they were sold as fakes, and the seller didn't try to claim that they were genuine.
I may even have fakes in my collection that I am not aware of, but I doubt it because in general almost all of my collection has come from Russian families who were selling up in Central Asia and moving back to Russia. I have never bought from professional dealers until I recently made my first purchase on e-bay.
Nowadays I wouldn't knowingly buy a fake or a copy because it encourages the business, and in any case there are few enough genuine early Fed's and Zorkies around for honest collectors to buy as it is without destroying those that are left.
Yuri, I agree with your comments about the so called Fed-Sport. I don't take many photo's but even I know that you must have a fast lens and fast shutter speed (minimum 1000) to "freeze" the action in sport. So this so called Fed-Sport should at least have been faked from a Fed-S to be even remotetly believable.
Best wishes to all, Jim |
| uwittehh |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 4:36:25 PM
Yuri,
I agree, but that is a normal description of an auction of Boris :-(
He always has only very few information about the cameras he sells in the auction text.
And the $8k is a fantasy price, like most prices in his auctions...
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
| fedka |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 1:37:54 PM
This FED-Sport is surely well made, but it looks ridiculous.
Why "sport"?? One really shoots sport with a slow 50mm lens and 1/500 max. shutter speed. Sport my a$$! Vlad, feel free to censor this:-)
I'd call this FED-Borscht. They threw everything in it - FED, KMZ logo, HUGE hammer, HUGE sickle, low serial number.
Fakes, as we agree, can be rare and desirable, and expensive, but it is good when a $8K camera is represented in more detail.
All we know is that it is a "FED-Sport ФЕД-Спорт absolutely unknown Model" This is smart description because it does not claim anything. It is indeed absolutely unknown.
Yuri |
| dmzi |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 11:22:37 AM
Ho-ho-ho!
I think, that many from us have small collection of fakes . At some, I see fakes on the sites, unfortunately
Yours faithfully? dmzi |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 10:56:56 AM
Correction! As I said, "I prefer to stay clear of fakes and copies", but who knows, maybe I have been fooled in the past!!!
Cheers, Jim |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 10:47:01 AM
I think we can without doubt say that If the markings or engraving on a camera are intended to deceive, (especially if meant to deceive a potential buyer) then that item is definately a fake and therefore a dishonest piece of work.
Of course there are also honest copies, but these are not sold as the genuine article and the buyer will usually know that he is buying a copy.
Either way I prefer to stay clear of both fakes and copies, and just buy the genuine article!
Regards, Jim. |
| dmzi |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 10:32:42 AM
LUIZ!
Thanks for the information, but all these stories I know. I am interested by the documents, but not stories.
It is a fake, I think, but so it would be desirable to be mistaken.
Yours faithfully. |
| Zoom |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 10:06:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo
This camera, made with FED parts at KMZ predates the KMZ FED and FED-Zorki. It was done in the production preparation era.
This inscriptions only make this camera the fake. Dixi. |
| nightphoto |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 10:02:14 AM
Luiz,
I believe this camera is a fake. Probably made in Poland. We had a discussion about another one that sold on Ebay a short while ago. Here is a link to that thread:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=579&SearchTerms=fed,sport
Regards, Bill
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 08:05:34 AM
dmzi
Observe the "tomb" ensignia on camera top and trigger advance.
This camera, made with FED parts at KMZ predates the KMZ FED and FED-Zorki. It was done in the production preparation era.
This camera has a different main shaft from ordinari FED/FED once the coupling screw is reversed in order to fit the trigger.
Rgards
LP |
| dmzi |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 12:16:56 AM
Colleague!
Probably somebody has the document confirming, that this camera was let out by a factory FED.
Not first time I see it on sale. |
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