| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 2:58:53 PM
Hi!
The very interesting massage was found few days ago at the guestbook of my website:
"Not many people know this but I am the person that gave the Zenit XP it's XP name. As a business man dealing with Intertorg, an organisation of the minsitry of foreign trade in Moscow, I was discussing photo business with Mr. Kuznetsov, one of the department heads. At the end of the meeting he casually mentioned that they would bring out a new Zenit camera and if I had any suggestions about naming this camera. When back in Belgium I made several suggestions (by telex no fax or e-mail yet) and one of them was XP for extra precision. I did get a thank you telex a few weeks later informing me that XP was selected. I do own an xp camera myself and still use it occasionally. Regards, Raf van Gils (Antwerp-Belgium)"
I have tried to cantact the author, but failed unfortunately. Any comments?
Best Regards,
Aidas
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| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 10:10:26 AM
To remember the 50 years now!
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/bx1958A.JPG
LP
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| stephanvdz |
Posted - Jul 25 2008 : 04:17:54 AM
Belgium had close connexions with Soviet foreign trade... through local companies (usually in hands of some communist minded businessmen or intellectuals), the main event was the international exposition of 58 (the one that is engraved on some lenses) where USSR had a palace in front of the USA one... and a very big trade delegation in Brussels. They usually stayed at the Hotel Van Belle in Anderlecht, one of the cheapest full service hotel at that time... and I know that the hotel boss wrote a note on the desk "we cannot garantee that there is no microphones in your room" (in russian) because both belgian and american secret services were quite active (and he had no choice... of course).
The Soviet lobby in Belgium also made a commercial arrangment about steel panels that resulted in the Scaldia-Volga brand name (cars...), and a bit later they build a Lada "factory" (in fact a show room and a finishing garage) that was very near the new Nato Headquarter (800m), very few blue collar workers were employed, and the roof of the factory was coverd with various antennas... more recently (early 80') Nafta (a former belgian company selling Soviet oil) won the public market for the Belgian army ;-). Nato immediatly cut it off, but the market was regular and Belgium had to compensate Nafta for the loss of a legal won public market... There was also a big public anti-american feeling when Pegard (a high end tool factory) was forbidden by Nato to sell a tool to the soviet ship builder (because it would have allowed the construction of silent propellers...), 100 jobs were lost... just to learn that less than a year later an american company sold the same tool to the same client... grrrr....
Still today, the representation of Russia for the EU (embassy to the EU) is one building away from the American embassy... the inhabitants of this one building are said to be cooked with radar and other radio waves...
Stephan
Stephan |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 1:13:57 PM
Man, Zoom, you're fast on updating your site, hehehe  It's always great to see official manufacturer web sites gathering information from us common collector folk.
Sorry OT: Never thanked you by the way for the mention of my name and placement of picture of my Zenit-122 50 years on your web site.  So thank you, I'm a very proud owner hehehehe.
Cheers,
Vlad |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:56:49 AM
Zoom,
Many thanks for the link. I checked and this site has given permission to repost, (didn't want to make a problem for Vlad)Here is a translated section of text from the section which talks about the Zenith 12 XP.
Zenit-12 xp - [twelve Pi-X] - deemed "export option" ZENITa-12sd, although in fact was released a year earlier and sold under its name in Latin and in the domestic market. According to one version this name comes from "extreme progress" with the intent - "great success", on the other - from the "extra precision" - "special accuracy." The author called the reduction Belgian businessman Rafael van Gils (Rafaël van Gils), who proposed the index for the camera during his talks with a foreign trade organizations.
Thanks and best wishes, Jim. |
| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 10:36:52 AM
Btw.: http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-names.html#zenit-12xp ;) |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 10:02:38 AM
Hi Aidas,
Congratulations. That's great news!
Best wishes, Jim. |
| AidasCams |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 07:10:51 AM
Hi,
I have received reply from Mr.Raf van Gils today morning! Happy to say, he is a camera collector himself . After reviewing our comments in particular Topic, he have decided to find the mentioned telex and to share it with us! Would be great find, isn't it?
Best Regards,
Aidas
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| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 05:36:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
I don't think this person who wrote into Aidas' site would make up a story like this. There are many more interesting stories that could be made up than that.
I do not have reasons to not trust this story. However in it there are some key places which seem to me doubtful...
There are doubts in the name of the organization. There are doubts in accuracy of "decoding". A lot of time has passed, something can be forgotten... |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 02:49:59 AM
Aidas,
Agreed!
Best wishes, and good luck, Jim
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| AidasCams |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 11:07:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James McGee
Hello again,
I've been thinking! I saw the name of the guest who visited Aidas's site on the internet, and didn't want to overstep the mark by intruding on his privacy. Of course it may not even be the same person, but I suspect it is.
I don't see any problem if Aidas were willing to contact this person, after all he did make first contact with Aidas himself.
In that case perhaps we could gain more information with regard to this topic, not to mention that this man propably has many more interesting experiences if he was doing business with the Soviet photo industry way back in the sixties!
Aidas, what do you think?
Best wishes, Jim
Jim, Zoom,
Thanks for the great discussion indeed ... Jim is right, the particular man is the actual president of Belgian company (it's enough to look at his e-mail to be absolutely sure). Do you think, that serious businessman could play a trick on me, telling doubtful fairy-tales about his influence in Zenit models branding? Indeed, nonsense ...
I believe in words he said, unless it's proved vice versa ... The problem is, nobody can say now for sure. If he was asked to propose his version for new camera name, he was not obligated to be very precise in camera characteristics indeed ...
Jim is right again, I was willing to contact the person in few reasons: 1. to say thanks for visiting my site; 2. to ask more about that interesting story and 3. to ask the permission to publish his story in our Forums. Although I don't feel a lack of visitors, I'm not sure all of them are reading (or filling ...) my Guest book indeed ...
I hope to get the reply from Mr. Raf van Gils anyway. I would suggest to make a break now, while we have come full circle with this one already ...
Best Regards,
Aidas
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| nightphoto |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 10:18:00 AM
Could be that this man thought of, and even told the Intertorg man Mr. Kuznetsov something like "Zenit XP .... means extra precision" and then the KMZ folks used the name "Zenit XP" but with a different meaning like "extra progress", and then just told the man "XP was selected".
"Zenit XP" sounds good ... probably why it was selected. I don't think this person who wrote into Aidas' site would make up a story like this. There are many more interesting stories that could be made up than that.
Regards, Bill
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| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 09:00:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James McGee
Mr van Gils doesn't say "Precision exposure metering" he simply says "Extra Precision"
It is absolutely not important, what meant. This camera hadn't Extra Precision. Neither in exposure metering, nor in the mechanic. Anywhere. Therefore it was possible to name this camera as 'Extra Precision' only with the big degree of impudence.
quote:
Originally posted by James McGee
I don't know what "Intertorg" is exactly, but I have spent the last twenty years working in the FSU, and as you point out yourself "Some fishy business".
I mean that it was very strange firm...
See also: http://www.cedmag.com/article-detail.cfm?id=10923255
And the most important: I never hear that this organization was engaged in export of Soviet cameras.
Here probably following: the author could forget the exact name. However, he could forget and the exact description of XP... |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 06:51:39 AM
Hello again,
I've been thinking! I saw the name of the guest who visited Aidas's site on the internet, and didn't want to overstep the mark by intruding on his privacy. Of course it may not even be the same person, but I suspect it is.
I don't see any problem if Aidas were willing to contact this person, after all he did make first contact with Aidas himself.
In that case perhaps we could gain more information with regard to this topic, not to mention that this man propably has many more interesting experiences if he was doing business with the Soviet photo industry way back in the sixties!
Aidas, what do you think?
Best wishes, Jim |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 06:29:35 AM
Zoom,
First let me say I realise and accept that you obviously have a lot of knowledge with regard to Soviet camera manufacturers, etc.
But to answer your points:
Point 1.
Mr van Gils doesn't say "Precision exposure metering" he simply says "Extra Precision"
Point 2.
I don't know what "Intertorg" is exactly, but I have spent the last twenty years working in the FSU, and as you point out yourself "Some fishy business".
I work in the oil and gas industry in the FSU, and some of our past Soviet clients didn't know the first thing about oil and gas, but they knew plenty about security.
What I'm really saying is that some organisations sometimes involve themselves in otherwise legitimate businesses, (especially export) as a smokescreen and to provide an avenue, access, and contacts with other countries.
I hope all this doesn't sound too imaginative and fantastic, but I can imagine a company like the one named being involved in the camera export business as a means for other activities also.
Or am I being too paranoid????
Best wishes, Jim
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| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 05:43:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James McGee
...and to be frank I think that the explaination given by Mr Raf Va Gils from Belgium on the original post made by Aidas is as good as any.
In Mr/ Raf van Gils' version is two weak arguments:
1. Zenit-12xp had not a precision exposure metering.
2. "Intertorg Inc." was not a Soviet foreign trade organisation (but, indeed, it had an office in Moscow and Soviet top executives... some fishy business). |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 03:35:19 AM
I just did a quick internet search, and there is a person by the name of Raf van Gils listed as the president of a Belgian company which deals in imaging products among other things.
I didn't attempt to make any contact as I didn't want to impinge on his privacy, but I do suspect that this may well be the person who signed the guest book on Aidas's web site.
Best wishes, Jim |
| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 03:18:18 AM
Hi All,
I think that we have come full cirle with this one, and to be frank I think that the explaination given by Mr Raf Va Gils from Belgium on the original post made by Aidas is as good as any.
Regards, Jim. |
| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 6:02:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo
the translation to English so would be X (from Chystal) P (from Photo-diode)
About "X" see above. And about second letter: there was no photo-diode receiver in Zenit-12xp... :( |
| dgillette4 |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 3:45:06 PM
I might as well throw my two cents in, In radio electroincs (XTAL) means chrystal. Still quite an honor to use your suggested name for a product. Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 09:52:41 AM
Luiz,
I am sorry I fail to see the connection here as well.. if it did have a Russian phonetic letter "KH"(Russian "X") then the second letter would be "R"(in Russian "P") and could not be Photo-diode, because it would be letter "F"(Russian "Ф"). And if you're saying it stands for English Xtal - I have never seen it written like that in all my 15 years living in USA... Maybe it makes some kind of sense when you phonetically transcribe it in Portuguese, but neither in English or Russian...
Best regards,
Vlad. |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 07:50:32 AM
My dear James
I am not a perfect British speaking man nor either Portuguese!, my own language , but I was told that the abreviation would be "Xtal" as are done with "Xmas" (Christmas)because "X" is a Greek letter used both in Latin and Cyrillic alphabet and have similar sounds , but also have tendencies in sound also as "eks" or "sha"
My best friendness from Brazil! ...
LP
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| James McGee |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 07:09:02 AM
Hey, hold on a minute you guys! I'm British, but I don't think I'm perfect.
Luiz, I fail to see how you manage to get the letter "X" from "chrystal", in any language, either Russian or English!
Regards, and best wishes, Jim |
| cedricfan |
Posted - Jul 21 2008 : 11:42:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Luiz ParacampoWould those British people tried to be more perfect than everyone?
Indeed they try, and I might even say they do believe they are more perfect than everyone  |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jul 21 2008 : 9:19:53 PM
Everything very interesting.. and could be true.
But I have another version.(From TOE people)
This was the Zenit 12 sd from svietnii diody or light diodes . the translation to English so would be X (from Chystal) P (from Photo-diode) Would those British people tried to be more perfect than everyone?
LP
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| Zoom |
Posted - Jul 20 2008 : 5:27:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AidasCams
"... XP for extra precision ..."
Very interesting. Indeed, it was known that XP name had a "foreign roots". I heard about another, unconfirmed of course, transcription: "eXtreme Progress"...
P.S. Btw. "Intertorg Inc." was not a Soviet foreign trade organisation (like "Technointorg", etc.) It was the american (USA)firm specially founded for direct trade with the Soviet industry... |
| dgillette4 |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 8:57:25 PM
That is wonderful, I hope to hear more from you on the history of Fed, and the camera sales and production in the USSR. I was in sales in the USA back in the late sixties and am always interested in the great mechanical cameras..Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
