| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 09:30:37 AM
I just bought this camera on eBay yesterday as well, this is my first venture into the cine cameras. Does the 16mm film have a sound track on it as well? So do these record sound as well as videos? Or this is pure silent movie camera?
Can anyone recommend where to buy film for it in USA? And for that matter a cheap American 16mm projector that is decent (I don't want to pay $100 to ship one from FSU), I would very much like to try and test it out, I'm gonna look like a dork walking around with it, but it sounds cool. 
And what a beautiful piece by the way!
Thanks!
Vlad |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 12:50:27 PM
for those who want to see these magnificent sound records of the past, go to:
http://www.forumjoy.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15233&page=3
and be delighted! |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 12:15:29 PM
And now the SEL-1 synchonizer
Thidevice is used to synchonize sound to films.
It has a series of internal switches thas puts the projector pace according to the tape recorder speed. An stroboscope flashlight is intended to adjust projector spped up to see immovable the projector main spindle. A switchs in the handle speeds up or speeds down the projector to begin the exact synchonizatiom of the film with the tape. I had once used this device and it works astonishing properly. Once the film begins syncronized it goes so up to the end of the movie.
In the instructions it is seen the SEL-1 with an Yauza tape recorder and a Russ projector.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/cel1-2.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/cel1-1.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/cel1-3.JPG
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 11:31:07 AM
And here the original matching LOMO Luch 2 projector. Sorryonly in English
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/luch2e1.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/luch2e2.JPG
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 11:15:53 AM
These are the original Neva 2 leaflets in English and Russian from Vneshposiltorg (around 1965):
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/neva2e1.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/neva2e2.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/neva2r1.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/neva2r2.JPG
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| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 12:03:01 AM
Thank you all for your advice and links! I've actually bought a nice Bell & Howell Diplomat 16mm projector locally for $20, in great condition so I am all ready to start shooting some movies . Just waiting for some cameras!
Vlad. |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 6:23:46 PM
new double 8mm film supply
http://www.myoldcamera.com/Regular8mm.html
regards
LP |
| mermoz37 |
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 02:40:03 AM
Hi Vlad,
do you know....
the first archiv film in Rudolf Noureev biography was mde by his friend whith this NEVA camera....all in avaible light !!!
congratulation for you complete set (whith hoods !)
So...never compare cine movies result whith video tape or disc...the truth is modern videos, on correct screen, are better sharpness than 16mm (not 35mm and more)even if HD.
but old 16mm is more "romantic" whith very good soft/sharp (smooth ?)pictures...and the sound never good (it never reach Hi FI like videos)
alain
(ps: gain...sorry for my bad english....I hope to be understood) |
| okynek |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 11:30:11 PM
For true Russian camera fan :
http://cgi.ebay.com/SVEMA-co50d-Russian-movie-color-reversal-film_W0QQitemZ320300870463QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320300870463&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.com/TASMA-och-180-16mm-Russian-movie-B-W-reversal-film_W0QQitemZ320300838266QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320300838266&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
he-he-he. This film even yanger then a camera, but not by much |
| dgillette4 |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 10:01:34 PM
 The film comes on a metal reel and you shouldn't load in bright light, After developing you will have a little of flashing for about the first and last 10 or so inches. This can be cut off or Just load in a darkroom and get every inch of film used he he .100 feet should get you about 3.5 mins of use , depending on frame speed. 16 was the old standard but that changed 18fps. then 24 fps for sound. If you like the Charlie Chaplin effect shoot at 5 to 10 fps...remember that 16-18 fps is the same as 1/30 second shutter speed and set f-stop a ccording to your meter. Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 7:22:49 PM
Thank you everyone for your advice! Don, I really appreciate the offer, but I'm sure I can always get one locally on craigslist if I really need it, plus Steve (Bull Halsey) lives 10 mins drive from me so I can always take him up on his offer and borrow his projector if push comes to shove.
Does the film come in light tight rolls or do I need to load the camera in the dark? I have no slightest idea how all that works...
Thanks!
Vlad |
| dgillette4 |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 6:23:25 PM
I almost forgot that all 16 cameras I have seen use what is called a C mount except for Arriflexe's The price is $34.95 for Fomapan B&W at freestyle film ,Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
| dgillette4 |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 6:21:38 PM
Hi Vlad: Great find, You might try Freestyle film source. 16mm film has gone through the roof price wise. If you are serious about recording sound you might pruchase a Nagra separate system recorder. The system should have crystal sync. You also have to get the proper cables . You then have to have the sound transferred to the final strip. A much cheaper system would be to use single perf film and find an old 16mm Optical camera. The quality of magnetic is a bit better though through the transfer system. The camera I mentioned is the opticon. If you are really serious I have a spare 16mm bell-howell optical projector you can have, it is too heavy to ship but if you want to pick it up it's yours. I'm sure there is still film available I just saw it last week, But for 100ft roll it would go you about $30 or so for the film and I don't remember how much to soup it. I used to use and sell 16mm 100ft. for $6.99 in 1968 he he. Good luck and let me know how you make out with it. Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
| joelopez |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 5:15:17 PM
Don't know about Nevas, but most 8mm cameras in the west used a screw mount [d-mount] that was unique to 8mm cameras. There were lots of them made, and they're plentiful (and good). Anyone know what the Neva uses?
okynek has a lovely Neva 1 posted in the Wiki Catalog [under Movie cameras/GOMZ - LOMO.
Joe Lopez
Tacoma WA |
| joelopez |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 5:02:35 PM
Having to flip the film is typical of 8mm cameras. It generally came (and still comes) in 25 foot spools. You exposed the first 25 feet, flipped the film, and then exposed the next 25 feet. At the lab, they develop your film, slit it down the center, and (usually) splice the two 25 foot segments together. As a product, 8mm was developed out of 16mm film (silent 16mm film has perforations down each side) with the difference that 8mm has twice as many perforations. Super 8 has perforations that are different (they're smaller) than 16mm or 8mm film's performations. It came in 50 foot cartridges. You just loaded the cartridge, filmed what you were going to, and then sent the cartridge off to the developer. No flipping or slitting.
There's a small but lively community of people out there who still use standard 8mm film. It really lets you be more hands on than Super 8. There are still people selling and developing 8mm. You'll have a ball with it.
When I was a kid, Bolex [Swiss firm] had an 8mm camera that looked just like their professional/advanced amateur 16mm cameras, and I wanted one (but didn't get one) really badly.
Joe Lopez
Tacoma WA |
| okynek |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 3:48:34 PM
Vlad first congratulation on your purchase! I'm pretty sure you'll get another bug - collecting movie cameras!
Neva is 2x8mm camera, not 16mm. You shoot spool of film one way, then turn it around and shoot again from opposite side. After developing film you cut it on 2 strips and then you need "editing" or "mounting" table to glue film together, cut what you do not need, and add video effects, in other words to make movie from the film. Kupava is nice(and probably only) Russian editing table to start.
As I can recall no Soviet 8mm cameras can record any sounds :) A Specially Neva, it completely mechanical.
Best of luck! |
| joelopez |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 2:52:41 PM
In professional use (let's say to record dialogue in a film live), you not only had a separate sound recorder, but, to keep the image and the sound in sync through the editing/printing process, there was generally some type of sync unit between the camera and the recorder. Bascially they were linked together via a cord. Today, with digital recording, that's not necessary [they use time coding]. On the other hand, if you were shooting a travelogue or a documentary, you'd shoot what you needed and dub in sound effects, music or narration later. For home use, 16mm was a silent medium. But 8mm and then later Super 8 pushed it out of the home market. Somewhere at home, I've got a Kodak home 16mm camera that used cartridges that were similar to the cartridges that Super 8 would later come in. Super 8 eventually developed into a sound format, allowing people to record sound onto the film's magnetic track directly in the camera. This was a relatively late development [roughly the 1970's] and didn't last long since VHS and Beta recorders very quickly replaced home movies in the late 1970's.
Boy does this all bring back memories.
Joe Lopez
Tacoma WA |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 2:36:25 PM
Thank you Joe for your advice. This venture into motion cameras is completely new to me, before I start seriously collecting these cine camera I would like to first learn about the basics, and you've given me a great overview. So people would usually carry some kind of sound recorders with them to record sound separately, wow that must've been such a hassle!
Thanks!
Vlad |
| joelopez |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 2:00:55 PM
Vlad: funny, I just got rid of my last 16mm cameras [two French Beaulieus] the other day. Almost all 16mm sound films have an optical soundtrack. That is, the soundtrack is printed onto the film itself from a source separate from the camera, not recorded onto the film in the camera. Cameras that record sound directly onto a magnetic track are rare birds, and so are projectors that handle that type of film [basically, they were used for news operations back when film hadn't been replaced by video]. Most projectors that you'll find [Aiki's, Bell & Howell [who were taken over by Aiki toward the end], Kodak, and such] will only handle optical tracks [they basically shine a light through the track to "read" it.]
So, I'd be very surprised if your camera recorded sound. Bolex, Beaulieu, Eclair, Arriflex were the most common brands of 16mm camera that you'll find, and they are all silent.
Basically, with most 16mm production, the image and the soundtrack are handled separately. In the editing process, two negatives are created: one for the image, and one for the optical soundtrack. They're then printed together.
16mm optical sound projectors aren't hard to find. Schools and other organizations that once used them for presentations before changing over to video have usually gotten rid of them.
16mm film is still around because it's still used professionally [though mainly in Super 16 cameras], but, yes, getting it in consumer quantities isn't as easy as it once was. But it's out there.
Joe
Joe Lopez
Tacoma WA |
| Bull Halsey |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 1:34:28 PM
No. You can purchase 16mm film striped with a magnetic stripe already afixed, or standard 16mm film without the stripe.
To my knowledge 16mm film is still available but finding a dealer who will sell individual rolls is getting harder to find. Most dealers want to sell bulk rolls.
Steve |
| Vlad |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 1:16:49 PM
Thanks Steve! I may take you up on that offer once I shoot a test roll. Do all 16mm films have sound track on it?
Vlad |
| Bull Halsey |
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 1:06:26 PM
Vlad,
I have a beautiful Revere 16mm Sound Projector.
It has not been used in many years.
You can pick it up and play with it.
Steve |
