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Zenit 16

Created by Vlad on 10/29/2007 2:54:33 PM
Last Edited by Bruno on 12/22/2008 3:29:52 PM  
Located in
Still Cameras > KMZ - Zenit

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Bruno
Switzerland
5 Posts
Posted - Dec 22 2008 :  3:29:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

the entry in the Wiki catalog says that the Zenit 16 has a horizontally travelling shutter. This is also stated on Nathan Dayton's excellent website.

In reality, the Zenit 16 has a vertical shutter. I've edited the Wiki entry, I hope I didn't do anything wrong...

Cheers,

Bruno
Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 22 2008 :  6:03:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bruno

the entry in the Wiki catalog says that the Zenit 16 has a horizontally travelling shutter. This is also stated on Nathan Dayton's excellent website.
In reality, the Zenit 16 has a vertical shutter. I've edited the Wiki entry, I hope I didn't do anything wrong...


You are right that the Zenit 16 has a vertical shutter.
But you are wrong that Nathan Dayton's website is "excellent".

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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 22 2008 :  6:31:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Bruno

Yes, with the Zenit 16 you're right. As you can see here:

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/kameras/zenit.html#zenit16

(almost one who can read it ... ;->)

Best wishes - Guido

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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 22 2008 :  6:39:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Bruno,
Welcome to the forum from me too! Thanks for correcting the inaccuracy in the WIKI ... always appreciated as we are trying to make it as accurate and up to date as possible. Please feel free to make changes or additions whenever you are sure of the information, etc.

I agree that Nathan Dayton's website, http://www.commiecameras.com is an excellent site, in spite of some inaccuracies and information that may have become out of date over the years. I know that myself and many other collectors have learned a lot from the site and that it was one of the first Russian - Soviet camera sites available. In recent years there are many other newer sites, including Zoom's, http://www.zenit.istra.ru and Aidas', http://www.sovietcams.com , and of course this site with it's WIKI, which have more information to add to Nathan's site, but his was groundbreaking and I still use it, along with the others, for reference, photos, and information.

So, my hat's off and a great "Thank You" to Nathan, Zoom, and Aidas (as well as Vlad and all of the contributors to the WIKI on this site) for all of their time and hard work in publishing their web sites!

And I wish that it were possible that someone who is knowledgeable and had the resources at GOMZ-LOMO, BeLOMO, Arsenal, and the FED factories would be able to put together as excellent and as comprehensive a site, with wonderful the exact information and statistics, as Zoom has worked tiredlessly to publish on the KMZ site, for all our benefit and the benefit of history.


Regards, Bill

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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 23 2008 :  08:05:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

In recent years there are many other newer sites...


Btw., http://www.zenitcamera.com/ ( http://www.zenit.istra.ru/ ) was published in the Internet in 1999 (founded in 1996)... ;)

quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

I agree that Nathan Dayton's website, http://www.commiecameras.com is an excellent site, in spite of some inaccuracies and information that may have become out of date over the years.


Some inaccuracies? This site misleads each page.
One only: http://www.commiecameras.com/sov/35mmsinglelensreflexcameras/cameras/index.htm
"3 factory families produced Single Lens Reflex cameras(SLRs) in the Soviet Union." -- nope: 4.
"Unfortunately due to their penchant for seceracy we will never know if the production definately preceded Exacta." -- what "secrecy"? The West never recognised a priority of Russia in something...
"Then after they were renamed LOMO..." GOMZ was not renamed to LOMO.
"KMZ and its' subsidiary Belomo" BelOMO was not a subsidiary...


Edited by - Zoom on Dec 23 2008 08:30:30 AM
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Dec 23 2008 :  08:47:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By the way, would you like some pictures (on Wiki) of my Zenit 16 "surpriz" set ?

this one in Princelle's page 165 (I bought it from my friend Mark K.)
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 23 2008 :  11:33:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Zoom,
You are right about the large and important inaccuracies of the Commiecameras site and it would be great if they could be corrected, but as you know, not everyone rewrites and updates when mistakes are discovered or shown to them. If Nathan's site were to be updated, it could be excellent and accurate. The word "excellent" is certainly subjective and of course to a drowning man in the ocean a small plank of wood is "excellent", even though a life raft is also "excellent"! So in that way, Nathan's site was excellent to me, and I still use it for some circumstances, but not in the way I used to. Now I like Aidas'site, your site (KMZ) and this site's WIKI.
But, my point is more that Nathan's site was and is very visible and used to be one of the few available when searching the internet for information on Russian - Soviet cameras. I know that when I first became interested, about 2002-3, it was one of the sites that I found right away. Some other sites were visible too and they too contained wrong information as well, much of it reprinted from Princelle 1st edition. In those times and earlier, it was difficult to get accurate information outside of the Former Soviet Union and in English.
There is no doubt that once I found the Zenit Camera web site that you made, all of my problems were solved as far as KMZ and getting good complete and accurate information was concerned. I did'nt know that you started it so early! Congratulations for the long work!



Regards, Bill

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Dayton nathandayton
USA
95 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 23 2008 :  6:49:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit nathandayton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Guys for defending me! But I do not need it!


I can reply directly to Zoom. First my site went online in 1994, information was extremely limited and much was wrong!

If you knew about all of the problems, Why did you not tell me? I have always asked for help!

Could it be that it is easier to point fingers than do something?

"Then after they were renamed LOMO..." GOMZ was not renamed to LOMO." What would you call it LOMo appeared out of nothing conveniently making all the old GOMZ products?

"KMZ and its' subsidiary Belomo" BelOMO was not a subsidiary... Funny, KMZ's historian told me that BelOMO was started as a subsidiary factory!


Edited by - nathandayton on Dec 23 2008 6:57:06 PM
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 23 2008 :  7:59:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
from Princelle 2nd Edition, page 49:

"In 1962, GOMZ becomes LOOMP (Union of Optico-Mechanical Enterprises of Leningrad). The LOOMP logo appears briefly on a few SMENA-8 cameras, on their export version, the COSMIC-35, as well as on a version of the amateur cine camera, the Sport-2.
On January 1st, 1965, this industrial complex becomes LOMO, (the Leningrad Opitico-Mechanical Union.)..."

from Princelle 2nd Edition, page 228:

"In 1957, with the aid of GOMZ and the GOI, the first buildings of the last of the great optico-mechanical factories of the USSR are established on the banks of the Vilia river in Minsk, capital of Belorussia - the Minsk Mechanical Works S.I. Vavilov. (MMZ = :Minsk Mekhanischcheski Zavod.)"

"In the early seventies, with the assistance of KMZ, a new site is developed for the production of Zenit-E cameras. Starting in 1973, nearly 5 million units of this camera are produced on the assembly lines of the VILIEKA factory ... "

"In 1971 MMZ and VILIEKA unite to become BeLOMO (Optico-Mechanical Production Unit of Belarussia)."

So this is Princelle's version (from quotes taken from his more complete histories of the factory in each factorie's chapter). What do you think Zoom .... Is this pretty accurate in your opinion?




Regards, Bill

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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  04:23:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Thanks to Bill for good words about my website at first! Indeed, very interesting discussion... I would second Bill's opinion about Commiecameras. It's impossible to find a particular website with totally complete information about all soviet cameras. Now we have a great site about KMZ cameras (though some information is too brief or still missing here). Very interesting information about FED and ARSENAL cameras can be found at Yuriy Davidenko site. Fast-growing camera classificator of Alex Komarov is one of my favourites right now! And many many other sites from our friends, who are trying to introduce us with new types of cameras, other camera related information, etc. The book of Viktor Suglob will show us many unknown rarites as well. That's great! Knowing that almost all information about soviet camera industry is very approximate, I really enjoy every single attempt to clearify the situation ...

With Christmas Greetings,
Aidas
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  05:53:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nathandayton

If you knew about all of the problems, Why did you not tell me? I have always asked for help!


Sorry, Nathan, I had correspondence with you some years ago...
As I remember, I wrote about "Zenit-AN" (which is never existed), wrote about inaccessible pictures, wrote about an "Optek" sign (must be ZOMZ)... What did you answered me? :/

Sorry again... I do not wish to offend you.
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  07:28:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:


"In 1962, GOMZ becomes LOOMP (Union of Optico-Mechanical Enterprises of Leningrad).


In 1962 (October, 2) association where four factories have entered has been organised.
This factories were: GOMZ, "Progress" plant, "Kinap" plant, OOMZ.

quote:


On January 1st, 1965, this industrial complex becomes LOMO, (the Leningrad Optical-Mechanical Union.)..."


Yes.

quote:


"In 1957, with the aid of GOMZ and the GOI, the first buildings of the last of the great optico-mechanical factories of the USSR are established on the banks of the Vilia river in Minsk, capital of Belorussia - the Minsk Mechanical Works S.I. Vavilov. (MMZ = :Minsk Mekhanischcheski Zavod.)"


At first, Vilia river does not flows through Minsk!
The new factory (number 941) building was started in 1954--1955.
The mention of the help ("with the aid of GOMZ and the GOI") is better for excluding from the text...

quote:


In the early seventies, with the assistance of KMZ...


Yes.
Plant in town Vileyka (or Vileika) was named "Zenit".

P.S. Especially to Nathan: "with the assistance" does not mean that the "Zenit" plant in Vileyka was a KMZ subsidiary company. The plant in Vileyka was always affiliated to BelOMO.

quote:


In 1971 MMZ and VILIEKA unite to become BeLOMO (Optico-Mechanical Production Unit of Belarussia).


There was no plant in Vileyka in 1971 year... ;)
P.S. Rightly: BelOMO, not BeLOMO. This is a abbreviation and what letters are capital and what are small is important.

Edited by - Zoom on Dec 26 2008 10:50:53 AM
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  4:31:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the extra information Zoom, I am the same as Aidas and like any information that I can get and so I am gratful to everyone who can give it, or correct the wrong information.

In the Soviet Union and since it became separate states, as in other countries in the world, accurate information about industrial production can be very difficult to obtain and as well, accuracy is not always assured as the world of industry is full of complex relationships and not a simple linear story! ... But always interesting.

And so I wish you all a Happy Holidays and a big Thank You for all of your contributions to this and other sites and for knowing you all through the years. And Happy New Year too!



Regards, Bill

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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  6:15:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto

And so I wish you all a Happy Holidays...


It is too early... One week to the holidays in Russia... ;)
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2008 :  10:07:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Zoom

On the page

http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-logos.html

you give us a good overview of some of the SU photo factories with the logos. But I see that you know much more about this factories, like dates, cooperations and so one. Would it be possible to to expand this page with more informations about the plants? Or maybe it would be possible to add this informations in the Wiki of UssrPhoto.com? Or do you know any other sources on this topics?

I'm very interested in this historical facts. Thank you very much.

Best wishes - Guido
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 25 2008 :  07:14:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guido Studer

But I see that you know much more about this factories, like dates, cooperations and so one. Would it be possible to to expand this page with more informations about the plants?
Or maybe it would be possible to add this informations in the Wiki of UssrPhoto.com?


Hmm... I have to think about it.
The only thing bad: I do not know English to write a pages or articles...
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4193 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2008 :  2:16:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Zoom and everyone,

thanks for some of the exact dates, I've added them to the Wiki entry where I collect all the exact dates: (http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=35&ParentID=4&ContentID=1038&Item=Soviet+Photographic+History+-+Collection+of+Exact+Dates)

Regarding the factory info, Russian is perfectly fine, we got enough people here who can translate it .

And thanks to everyone who invested time in creating all the great resources on the internet who participate in discussions here on USSRPhoto.com forums. Each resource even with some inaccuracies had paved way to better knowledge and understanding of photographic industry in USSR, and especially the inaccuracies are the ones that stemmed a lot of fruitful discussions and research, otherwise, if it all was accurate and perfect, it wouldn't be that much fun, would it? .

So please do discuss, argue, speculate, research, disagree - it is only beneficial and is all in good spirit in seeking knowledge and better understanding. Like from this particular thread I have extrapolated some very useful dates .

Vlad
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