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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 03:52:22 AM
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Hi Ulrich!
No problem for the TSVVS, I think.
For the VOOMP: I don't have presently Alain's one in my hands to compare!  But I think there is no doubt: Peter Coeln is a specialist.
Alas...one camera more I will never get!
Amitiйs. Jacques.
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 3:09:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
No problem for the TSVVS, I think.
Only one: the real camera name is VTS-VS. |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 04:38:23 AM
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| So...what means exactly "VTS-VS" ? please... |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 06:14:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37
So...what means exactly "VTS-VS" ? please...
ВТС ВС СССР -- Военно-топографическая служба Вооруженных сил СССР (Voenno-topograficheskaya sluzhba Vo-oruzhennykh sil SSSR -- VTS VS SSSR -- Military-topographical service of the USSR Armed forces). |
Edited by - Zoom on Nov 23 2009 08:51:02 AM |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 08:39:54 AM
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ok , thank a lot "Zoom".... |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 12:35:32 PM
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Zoom,
Do you know, or have any ideas about which factory or which location the VTS-VS was made at ? And, do you know or have any ideas what the purpose of the camera would be for the Topographical Service since it is small format ... why would they need this camera ?
Regards, Bill
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Kirill Yegoshin
SnuSmu
Russia
18 Posts |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 08:46:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Do you know, or have any ideas about which factory or which location the VTS-VS was made at ?
The only thing that I can tell: not FED and not KMZ...
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
And, do you know or have any ideas what the purpose of the camera would be for the Topographical Service since it is small format ... why would they need this camera ?
Using this camera as a auxiliary tool -- why not? A landscapes shots for a reports, for a teaching materials, etc... |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 08:53:31 AM
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Kirill,
From what I understand (by asking Yuriy in person during our meeting in France), he in that article is relying on a story of a friend who had a father working at that factory etc... We are not disputing that, but we're like to confirm it from some other sources as well, since there isn't any known documentary evidence of the Almaz factory ever making these cameras.. I guess we'd like something more concrete than word of mouth to solidify that account.
It is possible we will never know for sure, although Viktor Suglob promised some information in his book that he insisted we need to wait for to read in it. And I completely forgot to check it when I had it in my hands in Bievres, did anyone who was there remember what was in it? I know Aidas and Juhani have that book already, anything they can tell us that is not in Yuriy's article?
Vlad |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 09:20:58 AM
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TCBBC is listed under Moskovskij Zavod Oboronnoj Promatslennosti or something like that. I have no cyrillic letters in my keyboard, and translitteration is to Finnish...
Vlad: Should I send you a scan of the text? After all I can't take it as a copyright violation as you are soon getting your copy and we are not duplicating anything that serious?
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 09:30:51 AM
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Hi Juhani, yea that'll be great if you don't mind of course, I'll translate and summarize and post it in short here.. Thank you!
Vlad |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 10:52:25 AM
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Kirill,
Yes, the photo of one of my cameras is in the article on the DVD Tech site, and of course I gave Yuriy Davidenko permission to use the photo, but as Vlad has said, there is no confirmation or evidence that the article is correct.
There may be a theory also in Viktor Suglub's new book also, and hopefully there will be some evidence that this theory is correct! It is always easy to have a theory ... but to offer some convincing proof is the hard part with this camera.
I even have my own thoughts that by looking at the camera itself, and several details in its construction and build, that it may have been made as a project, for the Military Topographical Service of the USSR, but at one of the factories that were located in the Soviet Occupied Germany and had previously made the Contax cameras before they were dismantled to be used in the USSR. This may sound far-fetched at first, but when you look at the use of the specific serial numbers of the Ziess lenses used on the TSVVS (I will still call it that, although no doubt Zoom is correct about the real name being "VTSVS", as the search engines will find it under "TSVVS") and some other things like the numbers stamped onto the base plate and bottom of the shutter cage, the kind of leather used on the body and the case, the style of type used in the logo and serial number, and the quality and type of finish of the chrome.
Also, whoever designed the lens mount was very familiar with the Contax style mount, obviously, and the mount was designed not to take other lenses besides the normal 50mm lens, which makes me think that this may have been the only lens available in quantity in 1949-1950 ... in USSR there were other lenses available for this mount (taken from Germany), but in Germany maybe there were none left. Also it would seem that if made in USSR, the mount would have been an exact copy of the Contax mount rather than a new design that has no way to mount the lenses that use the exterior bayonet. This last idea, about the mount is something I have just thought of and maybe I'm not correct in my thinking about this detail.
So this is not a theory with any proof ... just some ideas I have had for some time, with my thoughts coming from observation.
Zoom,
Thank you for your answers to my questions! You are right that it could be made for auxilliary use and good to have confirmation that the camera was not made at FED or KMZ.
Regards, Bill
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:04:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
TCBBC is listed under Moskovskij Zavod Oboronnoj Promatslennosti or something like that.
Московский завод оборонной промышленности (Moskovsky zavod oboronnoy promyshlennosti)? LOL... |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:13:47 AM
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Zoom. Yes, what ever that means...
Vlad. In 1h you will get a scan!
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:22:40 AM
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Zoom,
What factory is it and what do or did they produce? Any cameras or photo equipment? Why "LOL"?
Regards, Bill
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:23:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
Yes, what ever that means...
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Why "LOL"?
Such plant name could not be in the nature. |
Edited by - Zoom on Nov 24 2009 11:29:55 AM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:39:53 AM
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| This may be helpful in this discussion as well.. http://bit.ly/5lBoH5 |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:56:59 AM
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| Maybe you're right, it does not seem to consider the optical-mechanical factories which I guess can or cannot be considered "Oboronnaya Promyshlenost'" (Defense Industry)... I didn't read the whole thing it was long.. |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 12:18:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Maybe you're right, it does not seem to consider the optical-mechanical factories which I guess can or cannot be considered "Oboronnaya Promyshlenost'" (Defense Industry)... I didn't read the whole thing it was long..
Some of this, optical, plants are listed there: http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-logos.html
and there:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/davidov-from-lupe.html
Probably that it is necessary to read that text this way: "a certain, unknown, Moscow factory of the defense industry".
But I am not assured that it was a Moscow plant... The "Almaz" version is good, but it is based on nothing... :(
And by the way, the assumption that it was the East German factory also has the right to existence... |
Edited by - Zoom on Nov 24 2009 12:22:21 PM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 1:27:55 PM
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Got the file from Juhani,
here's what's in the book:
"Model, known in USSR under the name of FED "General's" is consisted of copies of two German cameras. Body from the Leica model and lens with mount from Contax. Abbreviation TSVVS is engraved on the top of the rangefinder means "Topographic Service of Air Force". Manufacturer logo is absent, but in addition it is known that he cameras were assembled on one of the defense industry plants in Moscow as presents for highest ranking people of Soviet Army. Most cameras are covered in leather but only a few tens of them are covered by glossy pearl covering. Numbering is "sequential with holes" (??? нумерация порядково-сквозная), the year is indicated on the rangefinder cover. From 1949 to 1950 about 1000 cameras were manufactured.".
That's all he got. And then there is a a classificator of them. And heading of the chapter is Moscow Defense Industry Factory (which I think is just a general term to define section and not a specific factory). |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 4:48:37 PM
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quote:
"Model ... is consisted of copies of two German cameras. Body from the Leica model and lens with mount from Contax. ..."
Btw. the Contax part is a copy or an original?
quote:
Abbreviation TSVVS is engraved on the top of the rangefinder means "Topographic Service of Air Force".
Sorry, Viktor, you are miss...
The Military Topographic Service in Russia was only one. Directly submitted to the General Staff.
quote:
Manufacturer logo is absent
May be not... ;)
quote:
the cameras were assembled on one of the defense industry plants in Moscow as presents for highest ranking people of Soviet Army
I think that it wasn't the main goal...
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 5:35:41 PM
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Well, as Zoom says and for other reasons too, Viktor's paragraph about this TSVVS / VTS-VS may not be correct, or at least does not have much of anything new in the way of information.
A general copy of the Leica body, yes ... but with many differences.
A general copy of the Contax mount which will take only one Contax mount size of lens, but also with many differences.
To Zoom, no the mount on the TSVVS / VTS-VS is not a Contax mount or Zeiss part, but a machined part that has differences from any Zeiss part.
I think that there is no new info from Viktor as far as where the camera was made. Yes, of course for the Soviet Military.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 8:03:19 PM
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Unfortunately I concur, there isn't anything new in the book description of it besides what seems to be a very detailed classificator of various VTS-VS/TSVVS variations.
Just as a side note though about the book - and I am very guilty of doing that too - it's not really Viktor Suglob's book, it's the team of authors - Suglob, Shaternik and Kachergin... I don't think they get enough credit for this wonderful publication.
Sometime close to the publishing date in our numerous correspondence and conversations Viktor had hinted at some breakthrough information that was supposed to be in the book about this camera, but I think I vaguely recall something about him saying that it didn't make this edition in time or something of the sorts, but cannot be sure. What is really interesting is though that the "Minsk trio" does not rely on Yuriy's Almaz Factory story although they all are very familiar with it... I guess I got at least that from the book  ...
Vlad. |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 9:03:40 PM
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Vlad,
I think that if it is the case that Viktor and his co-authors have some new and definitive information about the origin factory, designer, or its exact use and distribution and that it was obtained too late for the publication of the book, then all they have to do is write it to you and you would put it on this web site. If any of them are seriously interested in the history of the Soviet and Russian cameras (which I think they are to write a book about it) then of course they should reveal something important like this rather than to first say that new information is coming in the book, and then, there was not time.
Any story about where this camera was made should have some evidence. Yuriy's story was nice to read, but any story of origin must have more evidence than just "a worker at the factory remembers this". Personally I believe the evidence is in physical form, in the cameras themselves ... but who can read it? For example, no doubt if samples of chrome plating were analyzed from two cameras, a German Contax and a Soviet-made Kiev (not just fabricated from the German parts, but a bit later when they were fully made in Kiev) there would be chemical or alloy differences. So comparison of details may be the way to start to look for the answer unless some actual documents appear.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 10:26:27 PM
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Bill,
you're absolutely right, there is no reason why Viktor would not share that information if I asked him, it's just I am not sure if the information that did not make it into the book includes the info on TSVVS (I think there may be but don't know for sure), but there is definitely materials that did not make it. I am due to call him anyways soon (hopefully tomorrow during my lunch break) so I'll ask him at the same time about this camera.
Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 10:50:21 PM
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Sounds good Vlad ... thanks for your info line to him and please thank him and his co-authors from me for all of their hard work on the book. I am anxious to see the book for myself!
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:18:55 PM
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Not a problem.. you and me both  (about that book that is) |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 06:50:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
no the mount on the TSVVS / VTS-VS is not a Contax mount or Zeiss part, but a machined part that has differences from any Zeiss part.
Thank you! So: not Arsenal and not KOMZ. And: not from East Germany... |
Edited by - Zoom on Nov 25 2009 06:53:08 AM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 09:03:49 AM
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Just spoke to Viktor, the information he was telling me about could not be independently confirmed (just like in our case here) so it was not included in the book, rather they reverted to a general description. From what I understood they had a few word of mouth accounts that he did not want to put on the record since they didn't believe them to be plausible when fact-checking
Vlad |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 09:38:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Just spoke to Viktor, the information he was telling me about could not be independently confirmed...
The true "name" of this camera* (VTS VS) is confirmed absolutely.
*) -- better to say, that this is the name of military service, of course. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 09:49:31 AM
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| Thanks Zoom, I've passed it on to Viktor in my email, I'm sure he will be glad of revision for the next edition of the book. |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 10:05:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Thanks Zoom, I've passed it on to Viktor in my email, I'm sure he will be glad of revision for the next edition of the book.
In my letter to him I have expressed the same hope... ;) |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 11:02:20 AM
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Zoom,
Because of other details, especially the method and style of stamping the numbers into the bottom of the shutter cage and bottom plate, I think there may still be some possibility of East German manufacture. These numbers look very much like the numbers put on Contax cameras and there is no other similar numbers on any Soviet camera that I am aware of.
The fact that the mount is not a Zeiss or Contax part may be because all of the Contax mounts had already been shipped to USSR and so the engineers had to make a new version for this camera.
Wherever it was made, it must have been thought that the camera would not need to have other lenses than 50mm, since no other Contax / Kiev - mount lenses will fit since the outside bayonet is not presnt on the TSVVS mount. In some way, it seems strange to me that a camera made for auxilliary use for the Military Topographical service would be thought of not to ever need a telephoto or wide angle lens ... just only a normal 50mm lens. So this is another mystery to me and in some way does relate back to the legend of the "General's FED" where the main use would have been to give to officers as a sort of "trophy" camera ... and maybe just using the Topographical service as a convenient method of being able to make these cameras under official Soviet order, but then given out to special officers. It would have seemed to be proper that an officer of high rank was in the possession of a Topographical Service camera, since after all they may have needed to use a camera in the field.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 11:27:19 AM
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Here's something I just want to throw out there for discussion:
VTS (ВТС) can also mean Military Transport Service (Военно Траспортная Служба) or Miltary Transport Airplane (Военно Транспортный Самолет) and also Military Technical Service(not sure if there was one) (Военно Техническая Служба) or Military Technical Cooperation (Военно Техническое Сотрудничество)...
Is possible these cameras were made to be given out as presents to foreign military allies? Waaay out there, I know, but the Military Technical Cooperation (it's a real term too, http://www.fsvts.gov.ru/ , not sure if such agency existed in USSR though) kinda makes sense.. presents for foreign military dignitaries... |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 11:47:17 AM
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Vlad,
You may be on the right track to look for other meanings to the initials. I say this because the official logo or emblem of the Topographical service has a different symbol than seen on the TSVVS / VTS-VS.
Военно-топографическая служба
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/25112009_7.jpg
This and the fact that the camera is not equipped to take other lenses has made me wonder about Topographic Service use. On the other hand, there is a camera that has inscriptions to an officer known from Bronstein collection, and most of these cameras do seem to be found in Russia, not other foreign countries.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/25112009_TSVVS-700 Bronstein.jpg
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 11:57:06 AM
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Good point Bill,
the inscription also uses the abbreviation VTS. It can also easily mean Military Transport Means of Soviet Army, (..в частях Военно Транспортных Средств Советской Армии) the way it's inscribed... I'm just wondering WHY the Topographical service was singled out to start with...
Vlad |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 11:57:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
VTS (ВТС) can also mean Military Transport Service (Военно Траспортная Служба) or Miltary Transport Airplane (Военно Транспортный Самолет) and also Military Technical Service(not sure if there was one) (Военно Техническая Служба) or Military Technical Cooperation (Военно Техническое Сотрудничество)...
It is hard to explain with my poor English that all your variants won't do for this case. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:02:36 PM
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| Zoom, go ahead post in Russian I'll be happy to translate.. I always said you can do that. |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:06:43 PM
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Also, on my own website there is a photo from my collection of Soviet officers, a General and a Colonel, and the Colonel (who is a political officer) has a TSVVS camera:
http://nightphoto.com/photos.html (scroll down ... the third set of photos)
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:10:23 PM
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| To tell you the truth (and I looked at that picture before too a few times) I always thought it can also be a Leica because they have the chrome front plate around the lens mount too... |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:29:59 PM
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But I don't think the chrome plate on the lens mount of any Leica goes straight down below the lens. Only on TSVVS, I think!
Regards, Bill
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:38:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
...and the Colonel (who is a political officer) has a TSVVS camera
Sorry, this is not a VTS-VS camera... This is FED* with the FED 2/50 mm collapsible lens, as I can see...
*) -- or Leica ;)
P.S. This is not a plate. This is the lens lever.
P.P.S. And you forgot to compare the years... |
Edited by - Zoom on Nov 25 2009 12:45:47 PM |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:50:52 PM
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If it is a lens lever, then the case would have a cut-out so that the lever could move around the lens ... this case is cut close to the lens with no cut-out for the lever. Also, if this was a lever in a low position, then on a FED the upper left (as we look at it) of the area around the lens would look dark, not light like in the photo. and, the Sonnar lens on a TSVVS also has the collapsible look.
The closest Leica will be IIIf and it has a round slow speed dial, which the camera in this photo does not.
Regards, Bill
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:54:59 PM
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Zoom, what do you mean about "compare the years"?
Regards, Bill
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 1:10:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Zoom, what do you mean about "compare the years"?
Sorry my English.
When this shot was done? Some days after 19 Febrary 1945.
Source: http://militera.lib.ru/h/kirichenko_pi/12.html *
When this camera was made? Four or five years later.
*) --
quote:
Высоко были оценены заслуги многих частей и подразделений корпуса. По представлению командования Указом Президиума ВС СССР от 19 февраля 1945 года они были удостоены высоких правительственных наград.
...
10-й отдельный гвардейский минометный дивизион был награжден орденом Богдана Хмельницкого II степени.
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Edited by - Zoom on Nov 25 2009 1:13:41 PM |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 1:18:42 PM
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Zoom,
Oh ... now I see! Impossible to be a TSVVS! My lack of Russian language is, as always, a problem for me in this field of my interest. Thank you and I will change the caption on my web site.
Regards, Bill
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 8:17:54 PM
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Well, just to keep the conversation about TSVVS / VST-VS camera origin going a bit longer, here are some photos of numbers stamped on a German Contax and also my TSVVS. Please notice the similarity between the style of the numbers "6" and "3" .
It doesn't prove anything but is interesting when coupled with the idea that TSVVS has numbers stamped on the shutter cage and bottom plate and so does the Contax ... although that is not the case with the early Kievs made with German parts.
TSVVS
Contax
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/25112009_TSVVS21.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/25112009_fineitem_191.jpg
Regards, Bill
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 10:02:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
If it is a lens lever, then the case would have a cut-out so that the lever could move around the lens ... this case is cut close to the lens with no cut-out for the lever. Also, if this was a lever in a low position, then on a FED the upper left (as we look at it) of the area around the lens would look dark, not light like in the photo. and, the Sonnar lens on a TSVVS also has the collapsible look.
The closest Leica will be IIIf and it has a round slow speed dial, which the camera in this photo does not.
Regards, Bill
It does look like FED-S. The lens is most likely FED 50/2. Which still makes the Colonel an owner of a rare camera.
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Alexander Bronstein
AlexanderBronstein
Finland
1 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 3:27:05 PM
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I am sure that the name of this camera should be VTSVS.
I wrote about it 9 years back, when showed a few cameras from my collection on the site of leica.boom.ru:
«TSVVS - one of the most enigmatic soviet cameras. I am not even sure that it is correctly named. There’s a plate with text: "To colonel Maksimov L.K. for a long and blameless service in parts of VTS S.A., from the VTS Chief on December 9th 1957"
This gives some basis to the unexpected assumption that it is necessary to read the name of the camera on the circle, as it was actually a normal practice in Russia, and it should sound - not VTSVS from Topographical Service of Air Force but VTSVS».
VTSVS=Voyenno-Topografitscheskaya Sluzhba Vooruzhennyh Sil (Militar Topographical Service of Defence Forces).
It took only 10 years till somebody heard about my opinion.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 9:56:16 PM
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Hello Alexander,
Good to see you here! Thank you for your original idea about the name of the camera and it is correct, no doubt.
Do you know any other history about where the camera was made, such as the factory or location? Or, any other information that would be useful?
Regards, Bill
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 09:18:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Bronstein
It took only 10 years till somebody heard about my opinion.
Exclude me from the list of "somebody"... ;) |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 10:52:29 AM
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I have edited the entry in the WIKI to reflect that the name of the camera is more likely "VTS-VS" rather than "TSVVS" as Alexander has noticed and written some time ago. However, I still left the name "TSVVS" in the title of the entry so that it could be found according to the previously thought name of the camera.
To my own thinking neither of these names are the actual name of the camera, but represent the military service that they were made under. Probably, like most military cameras, the name is letters and numbers only (like C-112 or AFA-47T, etc.).
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 11:20:14 AM
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HA! Hello Alexander and welcome to the site! Great to have here! I'm a big fan, love your site! .
Thank you for the clarifications for our English speaking members. I believe there is a consensus here at this point that this camera is to be "renamed" to VTS-VS (formerly known as TSVVS ) Thank you Bill for taking action! .
Again, Alexander welcome, I feel like one more apostle had joined the table . I am very excited to have you here and your expertise.
Best regards,
Vlad. |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 05 2009 : 8:52:17 PM
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Originally this thread was about the VOOMP - Pioneer and the TSVVS that were up for auction at the Westlicht Camera Auction in Vienna.
Well, the VOOMP sold for 5,500.Euros ($8,169.00) + the buyers premium and the TSVVS sold for 950.Euros (1,411.00) + the buyers premium.
I think the buyers premium adds about another 18 - 20 percent onto the totals.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 4:48:48 PM
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| Ouch regarding VOOMP, but TSVVS sold for less than usual.... they go for about $2000 lately - no? |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 10:57:41 AM
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Thanks Vlad and Alexey! Did Alexey express an opinion on what camera this is that the the political officer has?
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 10:59:44 AM
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| He thinks it's a FED-S |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 1:38:07 PM
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Yeah ... probably right!
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 19 2009 : 11:07:04 AM
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Although this is an interesting comparison and seems to point to the camera that the officer is holding is probably FED-S, it is not conclusive, in my opinion, as Aleksey seems to have distorted the photo of the TSVVS somewhat (it looks taller and more boxy than it does in real life).
However, the photo does show that the camera the officer has is most likely not TSVVS as the Sonnar lens is much shorter and larger in diameter than either the lens on a FED-S or on a Leica. So, it helps to rule out TSVVS (as Zoom has already said from his dating of the photo by the text written on the back).
So now, is it a Leica or a FED-S ... I think FED-S .... Thanks Aleksey ... and Vlad for posting it!
Regards, Bill
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Topic |
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Westlicht Auction / TSVVS (or VTS-VS)
