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 SSK Book (1200 Cameras from USSR) first impression
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad

USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  3:21:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Who got the book and what is your first impression of it?

I am anxious to hear opinions.

Vlad
Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
235 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  7:45:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit fedka's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I received mine. It was well packed, which is really important for the book's weight.
The book is very impressive - but we knew it. What really matters to me is that there are people (Viktor and his colleagues)with enough dedication to undertake such a huge project, and do it just for the love of what we all share - Soviet cameras and their history (there is very little, if any, monetary benefits).

The book actually poses a problem for me - Viktor is using different, more detailed classification methods comparing to JLP. There are model groups, modification, variants. JLP was so easy...

And there are no lenses in the book. And they are as fascinating as the cameras. I wonder if Victor has any plans for lenses.

I am not in direct contact with Viktor, so Vlad - please relay my great admiration and gratitude to him and his team.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  9:04:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I concur, the level of detail spent on variations of the same camera is astounding! Very similar that what Aidas had been doing on his website lately, great job on both fronts! After reading this book I feel like a total amateur . One thing that this book will make me do - is buy more shelves for cameras. hehehe.

Overall this book is gone way beyond my expectations.. Paging through it in Bievres this summer had given me an idea but actually sitting down and reading it, literally blew my mind in terms of level of detail. This is a book written by collectors for collectors and it really shows. I would like to thank dear Jean Loup for all his work on his book and it had served me well, but I really doubt I will be using it ever again after seeing what's inside this new one! . Hands down it's a worthy replacement. True that we could use an English edition but trust me - it's worth learning Russian for .

Vlad
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  9:47:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Vlad

I have received my book one week ago, thanks to Yuriy from DVD-Technik who did a great job in very fast delivery and carfully packing.

I don't understand nothing of the writings in the book, but the pictures shows great details to me anyway. There are some very interstings models documented in this book, new to me. And some details are also great to know, ie. the years of production for some variants.

It's a very useful book to me too, even if I can't read it. Maybe someone someday could make a translation of some parts of the book, who knows?! I would be very interested in the parts about Zorki's and Zenit's from KMZ by the way ... ;-)

Maybe we at USSRphoto.com could manage to do such a translation in cooperation with our friends who know to read such russian texts? This would be great.

The book of Jean Loup Princelle was my first book of collector reference for russian cameras and I love it very much. The "1200 cameras" is for me an other great reference and both together - also the homepage of Aidas! - are a big help in collecting and documenting all this wonderful cameras.

Thank you very much, all of the "SSK" crew, Jean Loop, Aidas and also Vlad for your great job you're done and still doing for us collectors! And not to forget every member of this forum who gives his experience and shares his knowledge.

Best wishes - Guido
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  10:31:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Guido! I would've loved to translate this book, if only my daytime job afforded me the time . Meanwhile I will be happy to translate any specific parts of interest, just let me know.

Cheers,
Vlad
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 25 2009 :  11:14:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Vlad

Well, page 40 to 93 and page 128 to 225 would be interesting for me ... ;-)))

No, just joking ... (not very much, but ... I know, your job!)

Very interesting for me on the first look would be the following entries:

- Zorki 7 (page 84)
- Zorki 15 (page 85)
- Zenit 9 (page 157)
- Zenit E2 (page 180)
- Zenit 12M (page 208)
- Zenit 14K (page 224)

But that's only what I found by first looking at the book. Maybe there are other interesting informations hidden in the rest of the text. So it's may probably not be the best idea to translate only some parts of this book. Maybe it would be better to begin somewhere and to continue over the time, even if this takes some years. And I would wish that not only you have to translate the whole book, but this could be done by all of the users here who know to read russian.

Okay, that's maybe asked a little too much to this community, but over the years ... who knows?! If I could help it would be a pleasure for me ... (okay, I even don't can write correctly in english as you can see ... sorry for this!).

Maybe it would be a good idea to talk to Viktor and the other members of the "SSK gang" about this, because it's also a matter of copyright by them. I sadly know of what I'm talking about ... :-/

Thank you for all you're doing for us non russian speaking collectors!

Best wishes - Guido
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Jacques M.
France
2456 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  11:39:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hello,
I totally agree with Guido. But I didn't ordered for the book: to look at the images would be too hard...
I do hope a translation in English will be made as soon as possible. As for French, it will wait, I think!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  12:15:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why not to add to this big book, small notebooks, with only the translated text? One, in English, one in French, one in German and why not, one in Spanish?
It would seem to me to be the most economic solution and easy to realize .Can be that each of us could collaborate in his native langage (if there are no exclusive rights on this edition).
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  12:43:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have received my copy of the book also and I like it very much. My thanks to Viktor Sergey and Grigoriy for the time and effort put into it!

It is a big problem for me also that there is not an English translation. Maybe, with permission of the authors, we (Vlad) can set up a section of the WIKI just for translations of this book and the translations can be added as they are made by anyone able to make them .. a little bit at a time, over time.

The section could be organized by page number and section of that page (when looking at most of the pages it is easy to see them as sections). Then, of course the specific cameras would be searchable by using the WIKI search and also by referenceing the book.

These translations could be offered for use by Viktor and his associates in case they ever come out with another edition or would want to publish an small booklet of translations. These translations could be in any language and so eventually maybe some of the more popular or important cameras would have sveral translations of their entries, in different languages.

Unfortunately, since I don't know Russian, I won't be able to help much:-(

Regards, Bill

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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  12:53:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to Yuriy DVD, I receive book from Ukraine faster then some packages inside the US!
The book is amazing!!! I can not find enough words to prize authors for job they done!!! The quality of the paper, hard cowers, and print is great!!! When I hold this book I get same feeling as I hold cameras what inside of this book! And this is a great feeling! I can not comment on articles – need to read them first but my first impression they are as good as a book!
I like classification of the cameras. It's easy understandable and very detailed. I would like to see less "quantity of production in unknown" especially for such cameras as Kiev, Smena, Sokol. Better to have estimated numbers then nothing at all.
Few small improvements I personally would be happy to see there:
Lenses catalog, of cause;
Accessories for photography;
And, very much - movie cameras.
I hope Victor planning to make separate books for these.
The other technical detail is resolution of the images (dpi). I think it depends of printing press and need to be better. Some detail is hard for me to see.
The other technical aspect is color images. I'm not sure if it will make book much more expensive, but to have color images would be a blast!
Most of the printing problems can be resolved if this book will be available in digital format. I'm begging authors to make this option available!!!
Digital format also resolve problems (in most situations) with translation of the book to different languages and increased popularity of the book and it sale. Of cause copyright have to be protected.
The other sensitive issue is ethnicity of some of the cameras, like black Horizont, black Kiev 15, Chrome Kristall, Start-Photosniper and some others. Question to authors of the book: Can we relay on information in this book on 100%? I hope so!
Also I have to admit that I feel very guilty that I did not offer that little help what I could for creation of this book. As I result couple cameras are missing from it. I’m really sorry about this.
Okynek.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  3:38:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All great ideas, but as you guys mentioned I will need the permission of the authors in order to post translations into wiki, since it will be public information on the site and I am pretty sure it's gonna pose a copyright issue.. I will need to have a talk with Viktor about that... meanwhile maybe we can work something out for the people who did purchase the book and are asking for translation for specific people.. maybe a protected section accessible by logged in member account people that did buy the book and it's controlled by the site admins who is added to that group.. I am not sure, I may still need to run this by Viktor..

Guido, et all who do have the book and requesting specific translations: I will do my best to translate some specific section and maybe for now email those directly to whoever requests it (I will try my best, time permitting between job and a little kid .)

I am hoping to reach Viktor hopefully this coming week and to see what his thoughts are and whether there are any plans in releasing an English version..

Also a possibility I can possibly use a Russian OCR software if people send me scans of pages they need to translate and I can even run that through google translator and correct any weird grammar, that'll simply things greatly...

Vlad
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  4:09:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must commend Yurly for his swift and careful shipping. I was quite surprised to get it so soon. I think the overall presentation is fine. I, like most of you , would have been happier if sections on lenses, accessories, and movie cameras would have been included.
What is the most important item not present is some English. There are a few iyems that have an explanation or two in English, but for the most part it's not present. I knew this going into the purchase and I'm not making a big deal out of it, but it would have been most helpful.
There is a series of Leica Collectors Guides written by James Lager. The thre books are : Book One - Cameras, Book Two - Lenses, and Book Three - Accessories. At this point maybe Victor would consider some similar type of follow-up. Another thing to make note of is that maybe Victor's intent was only to produce a book on cameras only.
Still, my thanks to Victor for working so hard to produce a volume that digs so deep into the Russian/Soviet Camera Industry.

Steve
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  4:30:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bull Halsey
Another thing to make note of is that maybe Victor's intent was only to produce a book on cameras only.



I think that's just it.

Vlad
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
986 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 27 2009 :  03:13:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My biggest surprise was the end: The Book ends before FSU-cameras ended. I would have liked to see the approx 15 more years before it is too late and also they become older = less easy to get knowledge.
And OK, Horizon is still alive but that's all.

Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 27 2009 :  10:28:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You're talking about Zenits 312, 412 etc? Yeah, well the confined of the book is "1200 Cameras from USSR" ... they've set the rules on this book being only on USSR cameras, because if you're gonna do post-USSR Russian cameras as well then you can as well include the pre-1917 cameras, you know..

Maybe we can continue with the post-USSR classifications here in the WIKI

Vlad
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
986 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 27 2009 :  10:40:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So we need a follow-up with "FSU-cameras after USSR", lenses and accessories
Those would propably be another as large book if all put togehter

Best regards,
Juhani
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 27 2009 :  11:36:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Yes, it is disappointing to me also that there was not a later chapter of production after 1991 when the USSR was dissolved. For example, I would have liked to see the Horizon 205 PC which was innovative and noteworthy. And, a chapter about Russian cameras before 1917 would be interesting too although it has been done by Princelle and others (and Princelle also covered some cameras after the Soviet break-up).

This is why it is important for serious collectors and researchers to use Princelle, "1200 Cameras", as well as other references including this website Wiki which has a huge amount of information not found in either book, such as lists of serial numbers and many many other examples of lenes, cameras, home made units, etc.

By the way Vlad, I think it is a good idea to have a Wiki section of photographs of people using the Russian cameras as it puts the cameras and equipment into a realistic context of how these things were used. It is easy to loose sight of the real purpose and the way the cameras, lenses, and accessories were used. As collectors we become so caught up in the details and small differences of the models (which is no doubt very important) and photos of photographers at work has always brought a more dimensional view of these cameras.

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 27 2009 :  2:38:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, Bill I will add the new section soon!

Vlad
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 16 2010 :  4:02:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Guido, et all - I have not forgotten about your request for translations, sorry I was on vacation and just got back into doing some maintenance on the web site. I am trying to find the time to create a specific-member only section of the website where I can post translations for people who own the book, I am thinking it'll be easier to do that as a forum section. I will research my forum module some more.. When I make that section you will need to send me a either a picture of you and the book or a receipt from purchase as I would like to respect the copyright. I've got an official OK from Viktor Suglob to create such section on our website.

Cheers,
Vlad
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4196 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 16 2010 :  4:17:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok I've created the section under Members only and given access to users that I know for a fact have the book. If you would like access to it and would like to provide me proof (picture of you holding the book or a receipt via private message, or answer a question about what's on specific page) - I will give you access to the forum and you can submit requests or contribute to the translation effort. But PLEASE also posts scans of the page.

Vlad
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