| Author |
 Topic  |
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
 Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 2:57:25 PM
|
Yea... I think he accidentally added another 0 to the price..  |
 |
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 3:39:25 PM
|
I believe description say that shatter does not work. Probably this fact increased asking price?  |
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 3:48:28 PM
|
may be!?
the first time i saw them before 2 weeks. until now no change in the price. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 5:14:36 PM
|
I've never seen this KOMZ piece before this listing a few weeks ago, and from conversation offline with Luiz and Bill, we think it's definitely military, a very interesting TEMP shutter (Moment-1 prototype), which was used on some Fotokors and in Moskva-1. Although in Moskva one it's referred to as Moment-1 shutter of type "TEMP"...
Vlad
|
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 5:44:58 PM
|
thanks vlad,
i also thought of a military camera or kgb, but the discussion about komz and military?!?
i have send an email for more picture on this rare camera. i hope it works.
regards
mike |
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 9:08:59 PM
|
| It can also be only part of the camera or camera from bigger system. Or it can even be home-made camera. We really need more pictures. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 9:36:34 PM
|
Okynek - well I will probably have to disagree with you in terms of home made... TEMP shutter is a very rare thing, almost impossible to find in any cameras and is very specialized, plus the KOMZ logo and the camera name indicate that it's factory made.
Mike - KOMZ (subsidiary of KMZ) from my understanding produced most of military optical equipment in Soviet union.
Vlad |
|
|
Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 9:55:18 PM
|
Well, it has occurred to me that it may be somewhat home-made from parts also. For example, maybe some type of KOMZ body of some type, but the TEMP lens put onto it, and... what is that lens on the TEMP shutter of this camera? In some ways it does look put together.
Also, what film does it use and how does it use it?
If TEMP was used on Fotokor and also on Moskva-1 then it is between 1940 - 1946 (about), and according to Princelle, KOMZ has been making miltary things since the early 1950s, which, to me is the age the body looks like. But I think that KOMZ, if making some type of camera like this, maybe would have used a KOMZ lens.
But remember this camera is now from Poland, where many cameras have been put together, faked, "re-manufactured", etc.
Regards, Bill
|
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 10:10:56 PM
|
Hi Bill,
Why would it have factory KOMZ FN 201 designation and the plaque affixed though? It's all way to obscure to be a homemade.. I probably could write it off as factory prototype maybe.... it's just too weird and seems not to be directed for casual use.. |
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 10:47:20 PM
|
Vlad you convince me that this is not a home-made camera. But without more pictures hard to say on sure if this is a camera or only part of some optical system.
I spent my best years in Kazan. Great City without any doubts! I visited KOMZ ones, only part where they manufactory geers, wheels and lens barrols. I did not see assembly lines or how they make lenses. KOMZ was strictly military manufactory with very limited access from outside. As far as I know KOMZ did not belong to KMZ or anybody else. Roomers say that KOMZ meet most of the demand for optical aiming systems for tanks and canons, as well as scopes for sniper rifles. They also made optics for airplanes and binoculars for infantry. Unlike KMZ, or Arsenal, or FED; KOMZ did very few items for sale. Mostly binoculars and some lenses for cameras, as I remember Jupiter 37A was one of them because I was offered to buy one right outside of the KOMZ fence I hope someone else know much more about KOMZ and can correct me where I’m wrong.
|
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 10:58:37 PM
|
| Bill has great point!!! KOMZ was created in 50x and can not logically use Temp shatter. While some of the optical equipment was evacuated there in 1941 possibly from Moscow or from KMZ. And they made a lot of staff during WWII, they were not called KOMZ as I know. They had different name and logo, I’m only can't remember how. |
|
|
Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 04 2007 : 11:13:58 PM
|
Hi Vlad,
We don't know what the designation "FN-201" means. It could be for any piece of military equipment. To me, that thing on the top does not look like a finder, but more like a handle. As, Okynek says, maybe it is a part of some thing that KOMZ made. It is easy to put a shutter on anything with a hole in it and make it into a camera. You just put it in place and put a retainer nut on the inside to hold the shutter in place. It seems that if "FN-201" was a camera, maybe it would have been seen by one of us before (but maybe not).
Many home made things are obscure. Even unique. Believe me, it will not be too obscure to be homemade if the seller actually gets $4000.00 for it! ;-)
I'm not saying that the "box" body is not made by KOMZ. I would not think that KOMZ would be making prototype F-21 cameras. This is much too crude to be an F-21 prototype (I think), as the seller claims. In any case, probably without more photos of the back, the back in open position, and the lens, it will be hard to guess the exact nature of this thing.
Regards, Bill
|
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 12:17:03 AM
|
| You're making a valid point Bill.. I agree that it's not an F-21 prototype although the lens look similar... it's just so hard to find a good TEMP shutter and use it in a homemade.. that's what throws me off.. |
|
|
Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 01:08:49 AM
|
You could be right about that Vlad. I wonder who made the TEMP shutter. Personally, I have never heard of or seen one before until this camera came up. I suspect that the TEMP may have been made by GOMZ, but it's just a guess.
I am wondering why the seller only put one photo of this camera when he has up to 3 or 4 photos in his other auctions? seems like a close-up of the label and a shot of the back would be helpful with such a high price and claim of extreme rarity.
Regards, Bill
|
|
|
Zoom
596 Posts |
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 09:33:22 AM
|
I guess I was wrong then! Zoom to the rescue! Thanks!
Vlad. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 09:38:16 AM
|
Bill,
I think Luiz was telling me it is GOMZ. Well if it's Moment-1 prototype then I would assume whoever made Moment, made Temp. I was browsing around Photohistory.ru and Abramov keeps referring to Moment-1 on all Moskvas as Moment-1 (Type TEMP)... just a useful nugget of information..
Vlad |
|
|
Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 6:48:30 PM
|
Vlad
Everything conducts in suspecting that this TEMP under question was made by GOMZ and Moment (post war) by KMZ Observe that there were Moment shutters Prewar made by GOMZ (Sport¨6x6 cameras), These Pre-War Moment shutters led to post war ZM 3 and ZM 5 and ZM 8 variants for all Smena Lubitel Yunkor Estafeta Yunost Mayak and Neva. Could "ZM" stand for "Zatvor Moment"?
Zoom will tell us. |
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 1:47:52 PM
|
hi,
mcbirdgold has written an email. he can make no more pictures or he will not. one other statement of him: it is prearchetype, really. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 2:10:31 PM
|
| something is shady then... usually if someone wants to sell a $4000 camera they would oblige potential buyers.. I think I'm going to go glue some Jupiter lens to my toaster and sell it as a military camera. I will call it a prototype tank mounted camera for taking pictures of land mines. The "Cuisinart" markings is a 1950s KOMZ prototype shutter. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 2:30:11 PM
|
a bad seller!
he will over 4000 dollar for a camera with one picture? and on the picture,it can not see everything.
vlad, nice picture, a very rare cuisinart military camera :-))
i have send a new email with question. i will more picture! |
|
|
Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 6:13:09 PM
|
Hey people!
Pay attention 4,000 Zl! Zlotych the Polish money How much it value
1.00 PLN = 0.408806 USD
Poland Zlotych United States Dollars
1 PLN = 0.408806 USD 1 USD = 2.44615 PLN
Or exactly 1,635.2226 Dollars!
Really... At leas two more pictures!
|
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 11:14:29 PM
|
| I do not know... Vlad's camera at list can make toast. |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 11:19:02 PM
|
Sorry Luiz, that be 10,000 Zlatych not 4000 = 3200 USD or so.
Okynek - yup! A toasty kotleta! |
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 02:47:42 AM
|
| 10000 pln are 2780 euro, that is 3860 dollar! |
|
|
Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 11:06:56 AM
|
That's what I said... almost $4000.00. So why no more photos of this camera are possible? Not a good sign.
Regards, Bill
|
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 6:54:13 PM
|
hi members
attention for this seller!
the king of bad seller in 2007!
the newest email of him: his answer of my questions
please check pictures of such camera in a book!!!
great answer!!! he has the camera? or it is a great fake? picture to make are very difficult.
i have it not in my many books!
regards mike |
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 7:12:04 PM
|
| Well, you know, if you put big price on fake it may became an original. I happened with paintings to. |
|
|
okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 7:20:51 PM
|
| And most likely he has no clue what he selling. Typical pawnshop style. |
|
|
mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 7:32:42 PM
|
this is rare! buy a fake and become an original!
at this price, you should already know or see, what is the offer! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
FN 201
