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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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 Posted - Mar 06 2013 : 6:04:36 PM
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Hi,
as we know there are existing very few FEDs with a slow speed mechanism. But I have seen some normal (pre)war FEDs with a hole in the body plate under the top plate that looks like the one that is on a Zorki 3. I want to know which serial numbers we have of FEDs with the hole. Maybe we can make a collection for the Wiki :-)
I start with a FED 1d from 1941 with serial number 156673, lens 189885.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2013 : 02:07:09 AM
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Hi Ulrich,
Very interesting subject. Is there any chance you could provide a photograph, showing this hole, so that those of us who are unfamiliar with the workings of the slow speed mechanism know what to look for?
David. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2013 : 11:33:54 AM
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Hello,
All the Fed 1 I have dismounted, from the 1c, have this hole.
But I am far from having dismounted all my Feds...
It's a hole visible under the cover, which corresponds to the front corner of the cover from 1c-s (1a and b-s have rounded covers).I look for a picture.
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 07 2013 11:49:30 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 07 2013 : 2:26:38 PM
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Right, this is the hole I mean.
Earlier FEDs don't have that hole, but I don't know from which serial number they have made the hole. So the question is which is the earliest that has this hole :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 07 2013 : 4:20:42 PM
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Just have removed the body shell of a FED 1c, no hole, serial number is 102245 (1939).
A FED 1d serial 141639 has a hole. As I know serial 141xxx fells into the year 1940. When were the prototypes of the FED-B made?
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
Edited by - uwittehh on Mar 07 2013 4:52:47 PM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 07 2013 : 5:00:28 PM
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You gentlemen are brave brave people, I wouldn't risk taking a cover off a camera that old  |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2013 : 04:49:11 AM
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Hi Ulrich,
Your 102xxx should be a 1d, no?
1B are said to be made from the 1c series (55/95xxx range, very roughly)to the 1e one. Alain had one I had in my hand: very probably genuine (serial number in the 1e range, 173xxx). It was tested by Dr Mladek under Xray to verify it.
The first B I know is in the Princelle: s/n 74386. So, a 1c. There are two others in DVD collection:
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/fed/fed.htm
Only 40 samples are said to be made. Not easy to find, but easy to fake with Leica parts...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 08 2013 : 12:16:29 PM
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Jacques,
right, the 102xxx is a 1d.
About the FED B, I wonder a bit about the serial numbers range, 74386 in Princelle and 141xxx at DVD collection. The one with the 4 digits serial number is odd. Could be one of those later ones with 4 digits we know about but have no idea why they have such low serials.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 08 2013 : 12:17:53 PM
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Vlad,
it is easier to remove the 10 screws on the body shell instead the top plate. After removing the 10 screws you can slide down the body shell about 1cm which is enough to see if there is a hole.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2013 : 4:20:41 PM
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Ulrich,
About the serial number range, we don't know anything.
Certainly, it was difficult to produce Fed B-s with the minimum tolerances which were needed. But I cannot imagine why there are only 40 B-s from 1938 to 1941...
It would have been a flag camera, very useful at this period...
Jacques. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 08 2013 : 8:00:44 PM
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hmm.. I shall try that when I feel adventurous  . Thanks Ulrich. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2013 : 10:56:25 AM
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Thanks for the idea, Ulrich. The ten screws are certainly easier to undo than the cover with the rangefinder and viewfinder. Never thought of that!
Till now, I have only dismounted some Fed S to clean them, never an "ordinary" NKVD. Perhaps all the S-s have this famous hole?
The fist Leica III (F type) were made in 1933. Fed had plenty of time to examine them before 1938, date of the first B. But I agree with you: I don't understand why so little B were made during so long a time.
Jacques.
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Christopher Sabine
ChrisS
Spain
29 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2013 : 2:51:40 PM
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Hi
Interesting topic. Judging by the number of leather cases which were produced with the cutout for the slow speed control (they seem to be quite common), the Fed-B must have originally been meant for regular production. Are we sure only 40 cameras were made? I remember that at one time there were no recorded pre-war Praktiflex cameras in the 10xxx serial range - plenty of 9xxx and 11xxx but no 10xxx. No solutions to this strange mystery. Then I found one - sure they were produced, the accident of non-discovery was the problem. Perhaps crates of Fed-Bs will turn up somewhere in Siberia (maybe???!!!)
ATB Chris |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 13 2013 : 4:38:29 PM
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Jacques,
I have only one FED-S (131xxx) but I did not remember if it has the hole :-) I will look at it the next days.
Chris:
Yes, I also have recognized that there are a lot of bags with space for the slow speed mechanism. Maybe they were produced when it was planned to build the FED-B and because of reasons we don't know (war, technical problems, etc.) the FED-B was not built then in bigger numbers.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 04:11:51 AM
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I know these bags too, and I have always one of them, I think.
Planning and normalisation, certainly. And if th B were not finally officially made, it's probably due too to problems of tolerance.
When removing the shoe of Alain's one, I saw some visible differences. Of course, the special spring for slow speeds. But too special nuts (four sides) to regulate the shutters. Never saw on a Fed before, common on the later Zorkis, but not exactly of the same shape.
The shutter crade was made in aluminium, like on the other Fed from s/n 100-110000. What about this crade on early B-s? Made in brass, as it should?
As for a mine of B-s in Siberia, please mail if you have a track!
Ulrich: I have just cleaned my S s/n 164433: it has a hole. Next time: 2 or 3 1c.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 14 2013 04:12:39 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2013 : 11:03:07 AM
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Well, I have just checked 3 Fed 1:
- s/n 67723: 1c S;
- s/n 67724: ordinary 1c;
- s/n 76862: 1c S.
No hole on these three cameras.
The first two are interesting: the s/n are consecutive. No difference between these two ones. As for the third one, its serial number is after the first B known (74386 on the JLP).
So, the hole corresponding to the slow speeds can have beeen made by special order. Unless this B is a fake: it is what Alain had said to me!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 16 2013 11:04:11 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2013 : 11:49:22 AM
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Last one for today:
The Fed S 1d s/n 157694, lens 2/50mm s/n29044 has a hole.
Jacques. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 16 2013 : 12:13:12 PM
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Jacques,
FED 1d S 131989, lens 11384 has a hole. Now we need somebody with serial number between my 102245 and my 131989 :-)
And while examining my FEDs I see that I don't have a 1c...
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2013 : 12:24:55 PM
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Ulrich,
I have the s/n 104xxx, 119xxx, 127xxx: I do that to morrow or monday.
Perhaps this hole begins with the aluminium shutter box?
Jacques. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 16 2013 : 4:56:56 PM
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Jacques,
I have found a normal 1d, 115780 that has no hole. And it comes with a bag that has no space for the slow speed dial on the front. So your 119xxx and 127xxx are of interest :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
Edited by - uwittehh on Mar 16 2013 5:06:48 PM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 11:16:22 AM
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The two last Fed 1:
- s/n 119712 (1d S): no hole,
- s/n 127195 (ordinary 1d): hole.
So, it seems the change appears somewhere in the 12xxxx range.
There is no connection with the material of the shutter box (brass or aluminium): the 119xxx has an alu shutterbox, but no hole. And there is no relation either about S or non S: the shutter box are exactly the same, but not the speeds, of course.
Of course, it would be interesting to check with other Fed 1d...
If all that is verified, it could mean that there is no B possible before that range. So, Alain could be right when saying that JLP's B was not genuine...
Thanks to have put the question, Ulrich!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 18 2013 11:36:44 AM |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 5:17:53 PM
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Jacques,
hm, (a censored word, haha) :-) I have had one with 122xxx, one with 124xxx and one with 126xxx but they are sold... So maybe another one of us has one FED in this serial number range.
Maybe the one in JLPs book is not genuine but it is also possible that it just has a top plate from an earlier one?
Ulrich
P.S. Winter is not ending here, about 15cm snow the last night and more snow comes tomorrow :-/
http://fotos.cconin.de |
Edited by - uwittehh on Mar 18 2013 5:18:35 PM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 05:44:37 AM
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About that one in the JLP, there is the position of the central screw: completely visible. It should not be the case with such a serial number. But there was too something internal, I cannot remember what.
Very happy you didn't feel obliged to put a question about -let us say- the possible markings behind the press film, Ulrich. So, thanks!
Jacques. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 3:05:57 PM
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Jacques,
don't be too sure, I think I find something like that 
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 09:30:42 AM
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But the story is not finished...
Yesterday, I cleaned a Fed 1f. And I discovered that its shutter box did not have this famous hole.
S/n of this 1f: 285063
Jacques.
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 1:14:32 PM
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To day, my Fed NKAP "Red Flag", serial # 200209. It has a hole too.
The rear face of the shutter box is not painted, rather varnished. And the whole mechanism is far from new: wear by film transport is evident. All that looks genuine...
That was my last checking. But I would not swear it...
Jacques. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 5:04:18 PM
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Jacques,
I have a 288xxx that also has no hole. About not rear face painted FEDs, I have seen some, through all serial numbers. I also wondered why they are not painted. But on some early Zorki 1 I have seen unpainted rear shutters too.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Topic |
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The hole in the FED body plate for slow speeds?
