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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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 Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 04:31:44 AM
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Dear Friends!
I have problems with the Ukrainian Security Service because of collectibles of cameras
look at, please my site http://fotoua.com
What do you think about this
is it possible in your country? |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 07:00:57 AM
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Dear Alexander,
it is very pity to read it, but I think you never can be sure, if you have something to do with soviet (or post soviet) secret services.
These Ajaks cameras are rather wide spreaded in Europa and you can find them on almost any camera fairs, BUT they are not German secret camera, so there are no such laws here to prohibit selling or spreading them.
BUT I have never seen German secret cameras on the German market.
Can we do something for you?
Regards, Alexander |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 07:36:27 AM
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German cameras were probably destroyed, But Soviet Agents after the collapse of the USSR could sell these cameras. And of course collectors buy them.
And after these agents catch these collectors.
I only want know if there's a violation of human rights, or should I go to jail?
Thanks.
Alex
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 07:51:22 AM
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Hi Alexander,
I don't exactly understand what happens to you. If the Ajax were sold by the KGB, anybody could buy them...
In France, I think there are only restrictions about weapons (always forbidden, except some weapons rendered unusable). There is too a strong legislation concerning the crimes against humanity. So, no Leica copies or whatever else with svastikas here.
But really I am not a specialist in these subjects...
I have just had a look on the net. Some Ajax are actually for sale by another Ukrainian seller...?
I will give this information to a French site of collectors and let you know if something is possible.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 08:01:22 AM
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Hi Jacques
I think such cameras had to be destroyed( or perhaps they were thrown) , but have hit the market in high quantities.
Now I am under investigation and are awaiting and wait for the court ...
Thanks
Alex |
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 09:07:33 AM
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Hello Alexandr
I was shocked some day ago when I have seen the text on your site. I don't know exactly how to help, but maybe some of the informations may help you:
The law
I think every country will have laws against contraband and smuggling. Also the trading of weapons and equipment for secret service use, communication and such stuff is highly regulated. As I understand in your case the lawsuit has just begun with the accusation or the prosecution. I can't estimate the severity of the case. But the best idea would be to find a good lawer who know this business.
The camera
The Ajax-12/F-21 is well known and used by many eastern secret services. In East Germany (GDR/DDR) the F-21 was used under the name "Ammer". In the early 90th KMZ even build a civil version of the F-21 with the name Zenit MF-1. I will send you the scan of an advertising folder from KMZ in russian and english by mail. Maybe this will help you to explain the declassification by the russian services.
The evidence
Maybe it's an good idea to collect some evidence about the trade of such cameras all around the world. eBay and other online shops may show that's common practice. An other evidence may be links to all the historic documents on this kind of spy cameras.
The media
It could be a good idea to talk to the media. But for the moment I would wait with this until the decision of the court is made.
The human rights
No, sorry, I can't see any violation of such rights. And once again: You are under suspicion and not condemned. By the way I don't think that you will have to go to jail, maybe the court will impose a fine on you and you will not receive back your cameras.
I hope everything will turn good and I wish you all the best!
Guido
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 09:53:10 AM
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Hello Guido!
Many thanks for information.
Do you see some "Ammer" for seling?
Perhaps USSR has been a lot of agents and so many cameras went on sale.
lack contrabamd will be easy to prove, since the camera was sent opened;
equipment for secret service- but all and interrogators understand what it is very old device and there is decree on withdrawal from service of this unit, but I don't know number of the decree, so I can't prove that
and many many thanks for advertising folder - it will be great argument. where are these folders? I know about camera Zenit-MF-1
Of course I hired a lawyer and also think that it will be a fine... but I do not see any crime in my actions
Court will be in a month
Thanks
Alex
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 10:11:37 AM
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The question is perhaps to know if these cameras were first officially sold by their original owner: KGB, State...
If no, it would be a question of receiving (and dealing). In that case, you would not be the only one to be in that case. So I think too that it would be very important to join other sellers...
Jacques. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 10:50:16 AM
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Hi Alex! I just saw your post, I am shocked and appalled! I also tried contacting you via Skype. This is seriously outrageous, I can't even think how they can make a connection to 30 year old collectibles that present no value to the government as any viable and usable equipment. This is pure collector/seller witch hunt. I am ready to start a media campaign with major photography and technology blogs as well as social media and make this an international story. I need your approval in order to do so, I have some contacts I can use here. Please let me know!
Keep strong
Vlad |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 11:47:14 AM
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I think, the main problem, that these cameras were never officially sold. They had to be disassembled and destroyed.
In fact instead of destroying they were unofficially sold to collectors.
This is the reason, why the Ukrainian Security Service takes care of them.
Regards, Alexander |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 11:48:10 AM
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Hi Vlad!
Yes, yes I'm ready to fight.
We in the Soviet Union for too long have been intimidated, and I do not want to be afraid and in democratic Ukraine too
Many thanks
Alex |
Edited by - alex-photo on Sep 15 2013 11:56:53 AM |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 11:55:43 AM
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Yes,Alexander, You are right, and I see many many such cameras after 90th
Regards
Alex |
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 2:07:05 PM
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I can't even find words for this. I lived long enough in the USSR to understand what Alex feels. This is pure intimidation, and about nothing, at the time when Ukraine has so many real problems.
I counted 13 of these cameras on eBay now, several from Ukraine. There is no possible use for the camera, no film available. A cellphone will take a better spy picture.
I believe and hope that this case will go nowhere.
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Stephan Van den Zegel
stephanvdz
Belgium
176 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 2:52:03 PM
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the main problem is that some agents have not enough interesting job to do, so they turn to petty stupid actions against normal citizens. Are they not trying to bribe you... waiting for some money to fall in their wallets ?
Anyone knows that former KGB and russian army Equipment is sold all over the world to collectors, they should not tarish a source of income (in hard currencies)...
Stephan |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 4:04:37 PM
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Hello Alex!
This is simply insane.
As Yuri said - even if you wanted to, there is no practical use for this item.
The question is - why are they coming after you now?
I can't imagine the secret service is actively browsing the internet for people collecting or selling these cameras, somebody must have tipped them off. And as there appears to be a law forbidding the possession of KGB equipment - no matter how outdated - they just had to respond to the complaint.
Unfortunately many countries have crazy laws, this is not just a FSU problem.
For example in Germany the cultivation of Opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) is illegal if you don't have a special permit, even though most cultivars do not contain a significant amount of opiates and are used either for poppy seeds or ornamental flowers. Still even if you grow a single plant in your yard to admire its flower you could go to jail for violation of drug laws.
Here in Austria cultivation is completely legal both for agricultural and ornamental use. I have opium poppies in many different colors in my garden but I cannot send any seeds to friends in Germany as the possession of poppy plants is illegal there.
Unfortunately I have the feeling that it's getting worse, the possession of more and more things is being outlawed for dubious reasons.
Good Luck and all the Best,
Christian |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 5:46:16 PM
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Hi Yuri
Yes, Ukraine has many many other problems.
instead, they are catching "spies"
Thanks
Alex |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 5:52:03 PM
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Hi Stephan
all agents has 25-32 years old and never see such cameras and spies, so they grabbed their deal :)
Thanks
Alex |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 6:01:22 PM
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Hi Christian
Thanks. I will have to prove in court that this is not a spy tool, since it does not have special film and that it is necessary to use more accessories for using it for hidden taking picture
Thanks
Alex |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 9:13:38 PM
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I spoke with Alex over Skype, the situation is completely absurd!! Everyone, this is one of the instances when being a collector of Soviet photographic equipment can actually help a fellow colleague.
Does anyone have any official documents in their possession that indicate that F-21 cameras were declassified to general public and/or decommissioned from Russia or Ukraine? Court is looking for any official documents regarding these cameras that can help get Alex off the hook from these absurd charges.
Does anyone have any contacts at Lomographic society, I've sent them email but another request would go a long way. I was also asking them for any kind of official documentation on purchase of the Zenit MF-1 cameras from KMZ. Maybe Zoom can help here? We need any kind of OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT proof (Soviet or Ukrainian, or even Russian will do for now) that these Ajax-12/F-21/MF-1 cameras are no longer classified KGB/Special services equipment.
Thanks to everyone for their help in advance,
Cheers,
Vlad |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 11:01:38 PM
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In Finland it is NOT allowed to:
-Sell items having a relationship to unwanted history like Nazis or rasist meaning
-Sell out from Finland any items of historical value
-Sell ilegally gotten items, like army or police items that were not sold to public
But everyone knows that all of this still happens, so nobody cares, as long as it stays at a some kind of a reasonable level.
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 11:09:29 PM
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Hi Juhani,
the problem is they got him on a technicality that this equipment is still workable. One of the articles they accuse him with (article 359 of Ukrainian codex) is using these cameras for illegal surveillance, basically espionage.
Best regards,
Vlad |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 03:21:56 AM
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Hi Vlad,
An official proof would be the best.
Another idea: an international petition. We all have contacts that we could alert...
Jacques. |
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alex-photo
15 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 2:54:36 PM
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Many thanks for All!
I'll inform about news.
Best regards
Alex |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Detlev Vreisleben
Detlev
Germany
109 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2013 : 2:54:16 PM
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The F 21 is not a spy camera but a surveillance camera. You can buy it in Russia at molotok.ru.
Detlev |
Edited by - Detlev on Sep 27 2013 2:55:18 PM |
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Detlev Vreisleben
Detlev
Germany
109 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2013 : 3:00:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AlexanderK
Dear Alexander,
it is very pity to read it, but I think you never can be sure, if you have something to do with soviet (or post soviet) secret services.
These Ajaks cameras are rather wide spreaded in Europa and you can find them on almost any camera fairs, BUT they are not German secret camera, so there are no such laws here to prohibit selling or spreading them.
BUT I have never seen German secret cameras on the German market.
Regards, Alexander
There are some MfS (Ministry for State Security of the DDR, East Germany) cameras, West Germany used commercially available cameras.
If you are interested, I will send pictures
Regards Detlev |
Edited by - Detlev on Sep 27 2013 3:03:02 PM |
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Detlev Vreisleben
Detlev
Germany
109 Posts |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2013 : 4:23:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Detlev
The F 21 is not a spy camera but a surveillance camera. You can buy it in Russia at molotok.ru.
Detlev
Detlev,
the F-21 was not a surveillance, but a really spy camera till 1991 and you could hardly buy it anywhere until the beginning of 90th. It was used with different covers and accessories by secret services in the USSR and East Europa.
By the way, you can see this camera in the Stasi Museum in Berlin:
http://www.stasimuseum.de/en/enausstellung.htm
Regards, Alexander |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
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Detlev Vreisleben
Detlev
Germany
109 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2013 : 02:06:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AlexanderK
quote:
Originally posted by Detlev
The F 21 is not a spy camera but a surveillance camera. You can buy it in Russia at molotok.ru.
Detlev
Detlev,
the F-21 was not a surveillance, but a really spy camera till 1991 and you could hardly buy it anywhere until the beginning of 90th. It was used with different covers and accessories by secret services in the USSR and East Europa.
By the way, you can see this camera in the Stasi Museum in Berlin:
http://www.stasimuseum.de/en/enausstellung.htm
Regards, Alexander
Alexander,
Secret Services used the F-21 for surveillance, there is no spy known who has used a F-21 (see Keith Melton: The Ultimate Spy. In German: Der Perfekte Spion).
The F-21 shown in the Stasi Museum was produced in 1993, the fall of the wall was 1989 but the Red Army (and KGB)stayed in Germany till 1994.
Regards,
Detlev |
Edited by - Detlev on Sep 28 2013 02:12:30 AM |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
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Detlev Vreisleben
Detlev
Germany
109 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2013 : 7:43:59 PM
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| Yes, it is such a camera. But there are cameras which numbers have been scratched. Maybe they are stolen. Regards Detlev |
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2014 : 02:14:21 AM
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I believe that Alex's latest court appearance was scheduled for February 18th. I have not heard from him since then and I was wondering whether anyone else had heard how the case went. If it is only a matter of possession of an F-21 camera, it seems to be taking an inordinately long to time to come to a sensible conclusion.
I would also like to wish all our Ukrainian friends well at this difficult time in their country.
David. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 04 2014 : 7:50:02 PM
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| He skipped that court date. |
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Mar 05 2014 : 09:40:59 AM
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I can't see a guy from Donetsk traveling to Uzhgorod these days.
I hope this case will simply disappear.
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
He skipped that court date.
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Topic |
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Ukrainian legislation and collecting cameras
