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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 25 2007 : 5:15:56 PM
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Hi,
I just bought another 'rare' Kiev 3 with s/n B 543224.My other one has a s/n B 542683. How often do you see such a camera? I feel these may be as rare as a no-name Contax, or even rarer.
Cheers,
Kievuser
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 25 2007 : 9:26:07 PM
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It must be rare comparing to "A" serial numbers, but certainly not THAT rare overall.
I have one B541139 (original box and passport). Well, I thought it was rare, but after reading your posting realized it is not:-)
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 01:09:38 AM
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| Less than 6,000 no-name Kievs were made, and they are considered 'rare'. But the total production of Kiev III in 1954 must be less than 10,000 cameras for the 4 digit numbering, and much less than half were B prefix cameras. I have two doesn't make them common, but I am lucky.:-)) |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 01:46:54 AM
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Hello Zhang,
Can you tell us if the film selector is like a german one with 'DIN' ? I own a 1954 kiev 3 with s/n A54XXXXX with that uncommon film selector.
Best,
jed |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 05:17:47 AM
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Hi jed,
My four 1954 Kiev III all have GOST on the meter selector, but I have seen a 1954 Kiev III with DIN numbers.
I only noticed that the arrow on the re-wind nob is slant on one of the B prefix K-3. Perhaps these cameras are with some minor defects?
Cheers,
Zhang |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 05:39:01 AM
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Hi all,
I have a Kiev III with:
- s/n A 511347
- selector with DIN
- AND the selector writes "F:" 22,16…
- FEATHERS on the arrow of the rewinding knob.
My other Kiev IIIa :
- s/n 5814964
- selector with GOST
- no "F" before 22,16…
- NO feathers on the arrow.
I do'nt know if this can help ?…
Regards,
Michel. |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 07:21:46 AM
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| Thanks Michel. I see that mass production of Kiev III started in 1951, not as stated before in 1952. The 'b'prefix still remains a mystery as well as production numbers of each year. |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 11:25:49 AM
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Hello Zhang,
I realise my camera s/n is pretty close to yours : A542771
See :
I don't know the meaning of the A or B prefix. But I'm still searching 'A' may be stands for 'plant crew A' ?
Best,
Jed |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 11:33:58 AM
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A bit fuzzy, I apologies. See the 'DIN' film selector (same camera):
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 3:46:02 PM
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DIN meters are parts from zeiss ikon jena or dresden factory ( also give cameras with top plates from east germany ). various parts were sent from both factory, according down the red army from jena, including the drawings and part of machines, to arsenal for the kiev 3.
there is little data from this time. it is difficult to figure out. i think it has with this 3 factories to be done, because this camera is no original arsenal. |
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 4:04:17 PM
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the drawings could have been a problem for these deviations. they came in german with russian translation.
another question: the first name was wolga (1946 in a drawing). when did the name kiew?
regards
mike |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2007 : 4:42:52 PM
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Hello Jed,
Yes, they are very close, only 88 cameras apart. 88 is a very good number for Chinese.
Your assumption for team A,and B might be right.
Cheers,
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by jed
Hello Zhang,
I realise my camera s/n is pretty close to yours : A542771
...I don't know the meaning of the A or B prefix. But I'm still searching 'A' may be stands for 'plant crew A' ?
Best,
Jed
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 27 2007 : 1:47:54 PM
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Hello all,
I also believe 'DIN' meter is of German manufacture. I hardly imagine the Soviets producing meters with 'DIN' printed. But I have no proof.
'Wolga' was a nice name 
I'm sure we'll find in the near future some new explanations !
All the best,
Jed |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2007 : 4:35:01 PM
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juhani, not quite correct.
Deutsches Institut für Normen = German Institute for Standarts
regards |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2007 : 06:17:48 AM
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for info:
mine is "A 531870" whith DIN, too... |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 29 2007 : 02:54:48 AM
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Hello,
We may need a 'database' where everyone can quote camera s/n, s/n prefix, front plate and so on !
Best,
jed
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 1:19:13 PM
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Hello,
That's what I paid for my 1954 Kiev 3 but the meter is ok.
I own Kiev 3 and also a Kiev 3A : both meters are ok and accurate. I think a dead meter will decrease the value of the camera.
best,
Jed |
Edited by - jed on Dec 30 2007 1:24:13 PM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 1:58:15 PM
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Yea, that's about the price of it without shipping.. I've seen the Kiev 3 with working meters as Jed said between $65 and $110, without working meter you can offer $50 no more...
Vlad |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2008 : 11:42:03 AM
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Hi cerdicfan,
Has the aperture knob the letter "F" before 22,16… ?
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 05 2008 : 05:31:27 AM
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Hello,
This means your kiev 3 meter is still a mystery
Here's what we see on an early kiev 3 instruction manual :
Does anybody own another manual with instructions for DIN meters ?
Best,
Jed |
Edited by - jed on Jan 05 2008 05:33:16 AM |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2008 : 11:47:39 AM
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To Sovietcam,
About "Volga" camera, Peter Hennig says :" …Zeiss were informed that the Russians intended to set up a production of 5.000 Contax cameras a month… The working name of this camera project was ordered to be VOLGA.
…In 1947 approximately 2.000 Contax were officially built in this project at the Zeiss factory in Jena. The majority of these were the Contax II model, along with a few Contax III and some others wearing the new name KIEV in Cyrillic block letters. …"
So, I think no Volga model was produced.
To Kievuser,
Princelle reads : "Officially produced from 1952, some Kiev III have been seen with s/n 49 and 51."
(Wich confirms your message dated 12/26/2007)
Nevertheless I'm not sure one can say "mass production" (?)
Best regards,
Michel.
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2008 : 12:03:16 PM
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To Cedricfan,
I don't know…
But the cell is probably from Zeiss.(DIN)
And we can guess that the Knob is too.
Maybe the engraving was then of best quality ? I mean more carefully realized.
But I don't really know.
In my opinion, all these "mysteries" make Kiev collecting quite exciting
Regards,
Michel. |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 06 2008 : 03:19:25 AM
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I don't know how much of it is true, but for many years ago I did read a very convincing story about how Contax became Kiev. So the following is no fact but based on my memory from what I read, and if someone knows the website where the complete story is please link.
The Contax factory was to be moved completely to Ukraina after WW2. As everyone knows both Germany and USSR were seriously damaged, and nothing worked well. Plus there was many priority things to do, like getting food. The factory was put into pieces and loaded on to train. But Germany has different rails than Ukraina, so on the border all boxes had to be loaded to a different train, which caused a lot of boxes to get ruined and lost. So when everything was finally gotten unloaded at the final destination it was clear that the parts could never make a factory.
The solution was to bring German engineers to build up the damaged & missing factory pieces. So finally after some years real production finally got started, but slowly. Some parts were old Contax stocks, some made by Contax tools & machines and some with the newly manufactured tools & machines. Which were mostly done in Ukraina by German Contax-personnel. First cameras were surely assembled from old spare parts fully manually and by no means as factory prodution line.
Naturally the old parts did run out in some years, but not all at the same time. And some parts were exactly same as the old ones as they were done with same tools. But some were new, made in Ukraina by Contax-personnel, some also already modified to make Kiev. Naturally first goal was to get production running and to make working cameras, so hiding the German origins was not a priority. But as years passed and new tools & machines was required they were modified to Kiev. Like film speed dial from DIN to GOST.
Based on all what I have later read this story sounds very convincing, so my opinion is that it is a good explanation why the early Kievs slowly shift from Contax to Kiev, and finding two exactly alike cameras can be difficult.
Also it is good to remember that the metered camera was not taken into production as early as the meterless. So they propably still had "new old stock" of Contax parts/tools/machines for the meter part when the camera parts were already used in making "Kiev-II"?
http://www.cedricfan.sivut.ws/Juhani's%20website%20ORIGINAALIT/ |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2008 : 03:38:31 AM
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Hi, Michel,
I assumed mass production according to the s/n of your camera, well passed 1,000 cameras. Maybe we should call it regular production as opposed to only a few prototypes? I am also not sure if Kiev II, III shared the same group s/n, then we don't know exactly how many Kiev IIIs were made in 1951.
Cheers,
Zhang |
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2008 : 08:29:35 AM
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michel
i think also, that no volga cameras was produced. i think, it give only drawings 11.1.1946 - 26.11.1946. at this date, all drawings became the name kiev.
no 1000 cameras were built in 1947. approximately 235 cameras - 2. and 3. preserie ( contax II ), 1. preserie ( contax III ) and cvj kiev prototype.
and 450 cameras from the 1. production ( kiev ). this cameras had inside a contax-engraving ( n°47051-47500 ). |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2008 : 09:55:21 AM
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To Cedricfan,
I think the articles you read some time ago could be from ZeissHistorica?
Regards,
Michel.
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 04:06:33 AM
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Here are some 'B' numbers I have collected FYI.
B 541139,B543224,B542683,B544194,B544466,B545494.
Please add to this list if you have more.
Cheers,
Kievuser
quote:
Originally posted by jed
Hello,
We may need a 'database' where everyone can quote camera s/n, s/n prefix, front plate and so on !
Best,
jed
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 05:05:03 AM
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Hello Zhang,
Believe it or not, I just bought a 1954 B prefix Kiev 3
Mine is B 542140
No DIN meter.
I'll post pictures when I'll receive it.
All the best,
Jed |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 07:09:37 AM
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Hello jed,
Congratualtions! These 'b' Kiev 3 are quite rare.
I noticed that all the scale marks on Kiev 3 meters are not exactly the same.It seems that each meter is individully calibrated, and marked.
Best regards,
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by jed
Hello Zhang,
Believe it or not, I just bought a 1954 B prefix Kiev 3
Mine is B 542140
No DIN meter.
I'll post pictures when I'll receive it.
All the best,
Jed
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 1:42:36 PM
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Yes, the picture would be greatly appreciated for that Wiki entry.
Thanks!
Vlad. |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 2:46:08 PM
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Hello Zhang,
Very interesting. Can you elaborate or post close up pictures ?
Best,
Jed
quote:
Originally posted by Kievuser
Hello jed,
I noticed that all the scale marks on Kiev 3 meters are not exactly the same.It seems that each meter is individully calibrated, and marked.
Best regards,
Zhang
Here's what we can see on a - gorgeous - 1956 Kiev 3A :
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 5:48:47 PM
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Hello Jed,
I will take some pictures. I have 7 Kiev 3,3As with 4 versions of marks. The line for 2 is not the same, some is straight, and some are bent to either way. The space between it the the diamond mark for '0'is not the same in width.
Cheers,
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by jed
Hello Zhang,
Very interesting. Can you elaborate or post close up pictures ?
Best,
Jed
quote:
Originally posted by Kievuser
Hello jed,
I noticed that all the scale marks on Kiev 3 meters are not exactly the same.It seems that each meter is individully calibrated, and marked.
Best regards,
Zhang
Here's what we can see on a - gorgeous - 1956 Kiev 3A :
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 26 2008 : 04:43:02 AM
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Hello Zhang,
Great !
Thanks for sharing.
Here's a close up picture of the top plate - same camera, Kiev 3A s/n 5616299
Best,
Jed |
Edited by - jed on Jan 26 2008 04:44:16 AM |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 1:52:13 PM
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Hello All,
I've just got mine today Well worth the wait, the camera is nice and 100% functional - even the lightmeter is ok !
See :
To illustrate what Zhang said about the Kiev meter, here's a comparison with an original Contax III camera :
 |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - May 29 2008 : 12:43:42 PM
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Hello Juhani,
interesting camera. My newest Kiev III (with "B" before serial) has the number 540221, so it's close to yours, but it has no Contax parts anymore. And the best, it looks and works like new :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 12:47:37 PM
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HI all,
if anybody knows where i can buy such a "b" serial camera , please tell me ...still missing in my collection.
thanks in advance....... |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 11:19:01 AM
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Hi Jed....
thanks a lot for information...yes I must buy it for me (me, or Michel...)
good eyes , good friend, may be good deal
alain |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 7:51:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37
Hi Jed....
thanks a lot for information...yes I must buy it for me (me, or Michel...)
good eyes , good friend, may be good deal
alain
Hi alain,
So far no more than 20 'B' prefix Kiev III has been found. They are rare. Buy it. |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 05:32:49 AM
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Hi Zhang...
I am not Rockfeller , you know....
Ok I buy it and...you pay for me ....OK friend ? |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 06:19:59 AM
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Congratulations !
ps : the seller wrote "tested with film" |
Edited by - jed on Nov 01 2008 06:22:11 AM |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 06:31:49 AM
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damned friends ...and now , tell me how and where I will get money to feed my family ??? |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 08:35:56 AM
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| I also hardly resisted the temptation ! Such a rare camera is a good investment :) |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 10:26:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37
Hi Zhang...
I am not Rockfeller , you know....
Ok I buy it and...you pay for me ....OK friend ?
Hi alain,
I did not know my advice would cost me so much. Well, maybe I could give you a vintage Chinese watch for my mistake. |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 11:20:55 AM
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thanks Zhang...so,after listen you all, I make a very good crisis investment : I will be a (the) new world company !!   |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 12:42:47 PM
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Euhhh……
Jed, did you meant Alain or Michel ?
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 12:46:32 PM
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.... I'm sorry Michel !!
I bet Alain owns some Kiev III :) |
Edited by - jed on Nov 01 2008 12:47:14 PM |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 12:53:10 PM
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There is no offense, Jed !!
About Alain : I ask myself what he has NOT !!! |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 1:16:17 PM
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Really ? None ?
Kiev III is my favorite camera
I'm just curious about your four meters: do they work fine ? I own two Kiev III and one Kiev IIIa without any issues.
A couple of months ago I purchased a broken Contax III but I found that a simple cleaning put the meter back to life I'll post pictures showing operation in the near future if somebody is interested. |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 1:59:47 PM
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Hi Jed,
Yes, the four cells work.
But I can say nothing about their accuracy (never compared with well- working cell) |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 08 2008 : 4:22:03 PM
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Another KNEB III with "A"-prefix arrived today. Serial number is 551468, so it seems to be the newest one of the ones shown here?
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2008 : 04:06:41 AM
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Hello uwittehh,
Sorry…
I have K III s/n # A 56 8453, cell in GOST.
So, mine is newest…
(Hé, hé, hé !)
BTW, is your cell in DIN or GOST ?
Regards,
Michel. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 09 2008 : 3:20:19 PM
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Hi Michel,
a Kiev III from 56 with an A seems to be a real late one. I have had one before, but that was an export version.
My cell is in GOST, only my Kiev III from 52 has the cell in DIN (and an F before the aperture values).
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 04:25:03 AM
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Hi, Ulrich,
What do you mean by "export version"?
Regards,
Michel. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 2:13:23 PM
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Hi Michel,
I mean the latin and cyrillic engraved ones with "export version".
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Topic |
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Bought another B prefix s/n Kiev 3
