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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 08:48:40 AM
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Thanks Jed!
A lens for the "souvenir", and new, if not cheap...
Jacques. |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 12:29:56 PM
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| They ask 600 € for it. It's the best price for a new ltm 50 1, 5 lens. I may buy one in the near future. |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 1:05:03 PM
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The C.V. F/1,5 LTM 50mm lenses were around €400,- which is a more realistic price for such a lens. The same for that Russar+ 20mm lens. My Elmarit 21mm F/2,8 was Eur. 550,- and is far superior then a Russar, even with +. Alternative a Zeiss 21mm F/2,8 or F/4,5. Like most of their products Lomography is far overpriced. For €400,- and maybe €50,- for a LTM-M adapter it could be a best seller.
Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/ |
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Milo Schekkerman
Valkir1987
Netherlands
200 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 11:21:18 AM
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A lens design dating from the twenties of the last century, which is still rewarded and appreciated by many. That's something I really like. Somehow things get kind of artificial in the digital storm of today.
Great bringing back lenses with character, but there is so much more KMZ is capable of. A lot of great lens designs are still kept in the fridge, which never saw the production.
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2016 : 4:07:37 PM
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I ordered one, should be here this week. More than half the funds were in my Paypal account from working on J-3's on request. I'm more excited about this lens than the Zeiss C-Sonnar, which uses Bertele's Ernostar 1-1-1-3 formula. I will be comparing the new lens with my original J-3's,
Cherry-picked over the last 12 years. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2016 : 4:35:42 PM
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Eager to se your comparisons, Brian!
Thanks!
Jacques. |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 09:44:16 AM
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Hi,
Just got one in hand this morning in the Lomography Paris store (only 2 in stock !). Build quality is high. I may have the opportunity to take a couple of pictures with it soon. |
Edited by - jed on Jan 26 2016 10:12:31 PM |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 10:27:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jed
http://shop.lomography.com/en/jupiter-3-plus
So the company is called Zenit now, no more KMZ?
There is the logo on the lens cap.
Does it make sense to put this lens on a digital camera, for example the shown Olympus with 17.3mm x 13mm sensor instead of 36mm x 24mm film? I think it's ok to buy a cheap old lens and use it digital, but to buy a new lens which isn't made for digital in the first place seems not so good. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 1:47:15 PM
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Hi,
Here's two pictures (Sony A7R ; both lens wide open):
Jupiter 3 (1963)
Jupiter 3+
Don't take it too seriously because I don't ! Both Hand held shoot.
I may send files, please send PM.
Best,
Jean |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 2:27:16 PM
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Interesting.
I suppose you focussed on the "1 appareil acheté = ..." Jed?
Globally, the two photos are similar, perhaps a small difference of correction in the shape of the light, behind the flashes?
The store seems full. I have to visit it!
Jacques. |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 4:43:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny
quote:
Originally posted by jed
http://shop.lomography.com/en/jupiter-3-plus
So the company is called Zenit now, no more KMZ?
There is the logo on the lens cap.
Does it make sense to put this lens on a digital camera, for example the shown Olympus with 17.3mm x 13mm sensor instead of 36mm x 24mm film? I think it's ok to buy a cheap old lens and use it digital, but to buy a new lens which isn't made for digital in the first place seems not so good.
This is with my 1950 KMZ Jupiter-3 on the M Monochrom. Wide-Open at F1.5. Looks pretty good to me!
My lens is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I'm glad to hear the build quality is high. The lens has a 14-day return policy. I'll know with the first picture if it is a keeper or not! I have high expectations for this lens. If it matches this KMZ- will prove they can build them like they used to.
Some people complain about the price of this lens. If Nikon brought back the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 it would be $1500. Canon would never think of bringing back their 50/1.5 Serenar (Sonnar formula) lens, if they did- would be $1500. This new J-3+ is chrome over brass, focuses to 0.7m, and is made to the Leica standard for $649. I could never see paying $1500 for an AF-Nikkor 58/1.4, but some people do. I bought a Nikkor 50/1.2 Ais. This new lens is in that category- it's a real lens, brass and glass, no plastic. |
Edited by - Brian on Jan 26 2016 4:55:57 PM |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2016 : 6:01:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian
This new lens is in that category- it's a real lens, brass and glass, no plastic.
No plastic is really good. I have no idea why many brands use plastic trash, with plastic they are really not worth the money for me.
This Jupiter also has 13 blades. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 02:50:03 AM
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Hi Brian!
Of course, this lens is a real lens, made of glass and metal, no plastic. Happily! Like any other Jupiter 3 or Sonnar 1,5/5cm...
I am just a bit doubtful about the price. We meet on the net black Jup 3 which are in a new condition for 200/250€. The only justification (for me) would be some novelty: is this lens better coated than a Jup 3? Is the calculation different, just a bit?
If not, I keep my Sonnars and Jup 3. And if I want to change, there are other LTM lenses which give a different rendering. A Voigt Nokton 1,5/50mm in quite new condition, for example (1st series in LTM). BTW, I own too the Nikon 1,4/5cm and the Canon 1,5/5cm, both Sonnars. Marvelous lenses. But I am OT, sorry!
In fact, we miss a new Russian camera to fit to that Jup 3 +...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 04:27:05 AM
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Jacques,
I've got it in my hands. Build quality is superb - no comparison with Black J3 or previous older J3. It deserves the "+". Also I doubt Brian will return it ;) |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 04:38:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jed
Jacques,
I've got it in my hands. Build quality is superb - no comparison with Black J3 or previous older J3. It deserves the "+". Also I doubt Brian will return it ;)
OK! I shut my mouth! |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 06:17:30 AM
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I advise people to stay away from the Valdai lenses, unless you are good at taking them apart. The Valdai lenses have great optics, but the build quality of the barrel and focus mount were all over the place. I've gone through Ten of them to get a really good one. Parted several out to move the optics to a ZOMZ barrel. The good one that I have required about ten hours to get working properly. The actual focus was off by 2m at 5m, the distance scale did not agree with the RF, and the helical could not drive the RF to infinity. The cure: polish down the mount, screw the helical in deeper, then re-index the focus ring. After that- reset the shim. On the Valdai lens: it was full of metal filings from the taps for the set screws. A 1975 ZOMZ "new old stock"- required a full CLA including a big change to the shim. Many of these original J-3's are in "like new condition" because no one could use them when they were new.
I should have the new J-3+ today.
I'll be comparing it with Sonnar formula 50/1.5's from Nikon, Zeiss, and Canon.
 |
Edited by - Brian on Jan 27 2016 07:03:18 AM |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 06:45:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian
I advise people to stay away from the Valdai lenses, unless you are good at taking them apart. The Valdai lenses have great optics, but the build quality of the barrel and focus mount were all over the place. I've gone through Ten of them to get a really good one. Parted several out to move the optics to a ZOMZ barrel. The good one that I have required about ten hours to get working properly. The actual focus was off by 2m at 5m, the distance scale did not agree with the RF, and the helical could not drive the RF to infinity. The cure: polish down the mount, screw the helical in deeper, then re-index the focus ring. After that- reset the shim. On the Valdai lens: it was full of metal filings from the taps for the set screws. A 1975 ZOMZ "new old stock"- required a full CLA including a big change to the shim. Many of these original J-3's are in "like new condition" because not one could use them when they were new.
I should have the new J-3+ today.
Hi Brian,
how do you think about Jupiter-3 from ZOMZ Zagorsk? |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 07:13:36 AM
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My observations: the first J-3's from ZOMZ came out in 1956- my earliest is 5600256; some deviations in performance in the 1956 and 1957 lenses; some of the best J-3's that I've shot with are from 1958 through 1964. Most ZOMZ lenses are very good, one of the best J-3's that I own is the 1975. I prefer the lenses with separate optical fixtures for the rear triplet as you can get some adjustment to the focal length. Around 1963 the design shifted to the one piece barrel- not possible to fine-tune the focal length.
I like the long-throw focus of the J-3, makes focus more precise and easier to follow a moving subject.
1975 ZOMZ J-3, wide-open on the M9.
With reference to the modern Cosina/Voigtlander LTM 50mm F1.5 Nokton, I picked up a Black one which is heavier made than the chrome lens. Got it at a good price, $300 in EX+ condition. Used it at the memorial walk at the Marine Museum on the M Monochrom, and all of the pictures taken with the lens at a slight down angle were out of focus. I disassembled the lens and found the middle elements were loose in the barrel, even though the retaining ring was tightened flat with the surrounding metal. The ring uses Slots for a spanner. Turns out someone must have had the spanner set too wide when tightening the ring and it stopped when the spanner head hit the surrounding metal ridge. I used a pin type spanner and the ring screws in well beyond the surrounding metal ridge. This lens had never been opened before, left the factory this way. No wonder I got it at a great price. It's much better now!
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Edited by - Brian on Jan 27 2016 08:21:16 AM |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 07:38:06 AM
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since I have shots from my KMZ and ZOMZ Jupiter-3's up,
1984 Vadlai Jupiter-3 50/1.5, wide-open on the M9.
It is on the M9 a lot. You can see my "red Dot" for the aperture index, needed to make a new one after re-seating the helical in the mount.
Also: I am happy the new lens is chrome and not black paint, as i use Digital cameras. I've had black paint flake off and get on the sensors with some older lenses. |
Edited by - Brian on Jan 27 2016 07:41:17 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 08:46:07 AM
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Yes, the fact is that we can have bad surprises when buying used lenses. Nearly the third of my LTM Zeiss or Jup lenses had to go to a specialist for various reasons... In most cases, it was a question of compatibility with my Leica and Fed bodies. I always have a Jup 9/Sonnar which is not perfect, except at 1,5m...
About Valdaï lenses, I had an excellent Jup 3, very sharp, re-sold because of its black colour. By your comments, I should have kept it!
Jacques. |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 10:31:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian
My observations: the first J-3's from ZOMZ came out in 1956- my earliest is 5600256; some deviations in performance in the 1956 and 1957 lenses; some of the best J-3's that I've shot with are from 1958 through 1964. Most ZOMZ lenses are very good, one of the best J-3's that I own is the 1975. I prefer the lenses with separate optical fixtures for the rear triplet as you can get some adjustment to the focal length. Around 1963 the design shifted to the one piece barrel- not possible to fine-tune the focal length.
I like the long-throw focus of the J-3, makes focus more precise and easier to follow a moving subject.
Thanks Brian,
the Jupiter-3 is 7 lenses in 3 groups, J-8 is 6 in 3. Jupiter-3 should be better, but how do you think of both of them at aperature 2.0? |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 12:03:05 PM
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A J-8 on F/2,0 is pretty soft. Comparing on F/4 an I-61 and J-8 the I-61 has a tick more sharpness. On my M7 I have a Summicron F/2. A good F/1,5 lens would be nice which could be a Zeiss, Cosina Voigtlander or this J-3+. However FOR ME a C.V. Black F/1,5 -M or this J-3+ with LTM adapter is the same price. Eur. 600 -/-VAT. So I am interested to follow these comparing tests of it. Extra using the J-3+ on my Zorki's-6, FED-3. In coating the possibilities in the 90's were much easier and better then before this era. So here could be the first improvement, hence a better contrast and/or resolution. I am not scanning but printing my 35mm negatives on 40x50cm photo format in split grade. Looking at my I-61, I-50, J-8, J-9 and J-12 it is possible. However they have all been in professional service. Further my M7 can be equipped with some compact Leica lenses, 21mm/28mm Elmarit the 50mm Summicron and a 75mm Summarit and a SWH-15mm-M.
Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/ |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 1:43:30 PM
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I just sold a Jupiter-8 (black) that I modified for 0.65m RF coupled focus. It's a fine lens, but a really good J-3: is sharper at F2 than the J-8. The J-3 is the premium lens, the mechanics of the mount are better. I have another J-8 coming in, made in 1957- year I was born.
The Jupiter-3+ just arrived, I did some quick tests. The build quality is superb, compares with my Nikkor 5cm f1.5. The focus is PERFECT across range on my M9. It's sharp, I will do a direct compare with the KMZ's: but it's really good. They hit it right. People pay $300 for a good adapter for Contax RF mount to Leica mount. This is a double-helical design with great glass.
I uploaded full-res to FLICKR. This is spot-on, good through infinity.
Wide-Open, snow is overexposed. Field-flatness is very well controlled on this lens.
Focus on eyes, then framed.
All wide-open. |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 1:59:33 PM
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Brass is used, and the lens is heavier in hand- like the Nikkor 5cm F1.5. The focus is very smooth, nice long throw. The coatings are improved. I'll be shooting more tests with the lens, and do some side-by-side comparisons with the Classic Sonnars and J-3's.
We're digging out of the Blizzard here- this weekend should be much nicer. I'll get a shot with the Sun in the frame, one of my favorite tests for Flare. I already have a Schneider MC filter and 40.5mm vented shade on it. The SN on mine is 200. I like that! |
Edited by - Brian on Jan 27 2016 2:00:11 PM |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 3:50:33 PM
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My Fence Post has been used to test a lot of J-3's and Sonnars in LTM.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/D7qgEs] [/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/D7qgEs]Fence Post Test[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/]fiftyonepointsix[/url], on Flickr
Wide-Open on the M9. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 4:40:55 PM
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Sorry, a bit late on this post; all that is going fast.
I understand that you had to service your lenses in use, Robert. In fact, I have done the same, except for my 2/5cm Sonnar wartime which is perfect. These old Zeiss and early Jup lenses are really among the best, if they are correctly regulated.
It can be a real problem if the body is changed, a Leica vs a Fed, with the same Sonnar 1,5/5cm wide open, for example... And worse with a 2/8,5cm. So, a two range lenses, regulated for Fed and Leica, could be necessary.
As for the rest, I wait impatiently for your comparisons, Brian. Just a detail: what is the weight of this Jup + ?
Amitiés. Jacques.
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 4:49:49 PM
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Thanks Brian !
No doubt, that lens is a keeper ;)
Hat's off to Zenit/Lomography for bringing back that lens ! |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 5:58:31 PM
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The actual weight is not in the instruction manual! They do advise you not to take the lens apart... I'm surprised it does not read "Brian, do not take this one apart"...
I took the lens off the M9, making the camera very sad. Holding the J-3+ in one hand and my early Nikkor 5cm F1.4 LTM lens (heavy brass construction) in the other- they are "about" the same weight. When I do the write-up will try to find a scale. As stated- overall build quality is very, very good. This lens is in the class of the Canon 50/1.5 and Nikkor 5cm F1.4 and F1.5. I paid much more for my Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5. The SN on my 5cm F1.5 Nikkor makes it at the 189th made, the J-3+ is number 200- and I ordered on the 2nd day that it was announced. I held out 1 day... |
Edited by - Brian on Jan 27 2016 5:59:36 PM |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 6:16:08 PM
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Yes, it can be a problem to use it both on Leica (M7) and a Z-6/FED-3. Then you need two J-3+ lenses ......
Yes my FSU cameras and lenses are almost all been in professional service, FEDKA or a guy in Holland repairing FSU RF and lenses extremely good for relative small money. My most expensive lens so far is a Black J-9 for $90,00. Most camera's and lenses I am getting directly from family or photo friends in Ukraine. So the most expensive part is to send them over (or I take them with me when I am in Ukraine myself).
Because due to the war with Russia life is pretty hard and difficult in that country so at the moment for a few $ people are willing to sell them more quickly. But even hardly unused they are sticked in the Green Sovjet grease and you always have to give them a CLA.
Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/ |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2016 : 7:12:29 PM
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| I calibrated a Zorki 3M to take a Nikkor 5cm F2. The RF Cam on the Nikon is very thick so the Finger RF follower of the Zorki makes good contact. The Nikkor lens focuses to 18", and the finger style follower keeps contact with the cam at closer range than the wheel style of the Leica. The J-3+ would work with it. |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2016 : 3:03:04 PM
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Sun at edge, focus on fallen limb in foreground, Wide-Open.
Sun behind the leaf, wide-open.
Another- Hazy Sun, again wide-open.
Infinity test, wide-open.
More here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/albums/72157661677880854
Full Resolution images uploaded.
AGAIN: This is a walk around the neighborhood in the Winter, just to stress test the lens. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2016 : 3:22:52 PM
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Thanks Brian.
Your photos show that the lens is well calibrated for a Leica M9, which was not necessarily the case for the wartime Sonnars, nor for the regular postwar Jup 3, of course!
And on your second photo, the swirling bokeh of the Sonnar formula lenses is perfectly recognizable.
I am eager now to see a comparison with other lenses.
Thanks again.
Jacques. |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2016 : 4:02:44 PM
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I forgot to mention: walking around in the Cold- focus remained buttery smooth.
Another fence post, at F1.5.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Dq3WqG] [/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/Dq3WqG]Jupiter-3+ Test, Wide-Open[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/]fiftyonepointsix[/url], on Flickr
And at F4:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/CD4YuF] [/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/CD4YuF]Jupiter-3+ Test, F4[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/]fiftyonepointsix[/url], on Flickr
Too bad it is not Springtime, one of the neighbors has beautiful Cherry Trees in the front yard. 0.7m with a Sonnar formula lens is special. I modified one KMZ J-3 to focus to ~0.75m or so. That will be the one to compare with this one. |
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Robert Vonk
Fotohuis
Netherlands
100 Posts
My Collection
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2016 : 4:55:39 PM
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I did some quick backyard tests of the J3+, C-Sonnar, and my custom J-3- modified to the Leica focal length, KMZ 1950 with Zeiss SN on the rear fixture. Dragged my Tripod an M9 into the "slush" left from last week's blizzard.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90768661@N02/albums/72157664046010901
The J3+ has the edge on my perfect-glass KMZ 1950. I made the mistake of having a Sky 1B filter on the C-Sonnar, but matching UV filters on the J3+ and J3. I'll redo the test, hopefully better weather. The results are surprisingly close, once I saw the 1B was on the C-Sonnar and the day was very overcast.
I spent a lot of time getting the vintage J3 working- and am proud of it, the glass had to be transplanted to a new barrel. I currently have 6 vintage J-3's in Leica mount, 4 KMZ's, a 1975 ZOMZ and 1984 Valdai- all perfect glass, product of cherry picking over 12 years. This 1950 KMZ J-3 is my best of them. Next Sunny day off, will try to do justice for comparing these lenses. |
Edited by - Brian on Feb 01 2016 6:45:08 PM |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2016 : 5:32:09 PM
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I took the Jupiter-3+, a 1956 KMZ Jupiter-3 "perfect glass", and my 1934 5cm F1.5 Sonnar converted to LTM to Gunston Hall yesterday.
The rendering of the new lens is so close to the 1934 original it's amazing.
1934 Sonnar wide-open,
The New Jupiter-3+
And the 1956 KMZ Hupiter-3, all wide-open.
The Sonnar and KMZ: I custom shimmed for the Leica, the Jupiter-3+ PERFECT agreement. I did not touch it, was perfect out of the box.
I've submitted a write-up to Lomography. I like this lens, it's amazing to see it in production and such care given to the implementation. This lens is as well made as the Nikkor 5cm F1.4, but has much nicer Bokeh. I have used the Nikkor on my S-Mount cameras and have the LTM version. I prefer the F1.5 Nikkor. |
Edited by - Brian on Feb 07 2016 5:34:24 PM |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Brian
USA
67 Posts |
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Topic |
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New Lens Jupiter 3 LTM
