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 Zorki flash sychronizer
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Don Gillette
dgillette4

USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  6:08:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That sounds like maybe that's the way to go , thankyou ,I'll go to collectable and see. I used to check sync by positioning a white paper in the filmplane and aiming the flash at the front of the camera without lense and looking for a complete white film plane as I fired the flash. I don't use flash that much and I could always use my Fed 4 , We just got 3 more inches of snow up here and I have to shoverl. have a safe daya all..Don

Edited by - dgillette4 on Feb 26 2008 07:56:26 AM
Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1870 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  6:57:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
dgillette4
Salute!
Early Zorkis had a 0 to 25 markings in synchro ring.
This means that the electrical contact is done from 0 to 25 miliseconds previously the first curtain achieves the end of its travel. So if you put the camera at 1/25 (the cameras having such speed) and the synchro at "25" the contact will close before the curtain opens. At 1/30 (in cameras having such speeds) the contact will close and fire the flash at a hair wire opened.- (1/30 is quicker than 1/25) At "0" the contact shuts when the curtain is wide opened. More recent Zorkis have only M and X markings.
The flash delay was used for synchronizing bulbs that required warm-up time toachieve maximum luminance and this is the reason of such synchro system.
Regards
LP
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  7:30:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There have been at least one add on device for flash sync that was popular back when very few cameras had a PC (Prontor Compur) connector. The one that comes to mind is the Hakosyn sync flash device (Made in Germany)that consisted of a cam attached to the shutter dial that tripped a switch that was slid into the accessory shoe.It came in a small metal tin box.
I believe it was hit and miss unless one took the time to calibrate for each camera that it was installed on.
john

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Feb 25 2008 7:31:23 PM
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  7:41:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by dgillette4
Thanks for the quick response, I was thinking of trying to use it for X sync but that might not be possible. I really enjoy the the Zorki 1 ,for it's small size and good lenses, it just lacks one thing and that is flash sync. I saw one of these synchronizers for sale at Fedka ,maybe I can change the contact point so that it fires at full curtain open. Hmmm
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  7:49:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by dgillette4

[quote]Originally posted by dgillette4
I was thinking of trying to use it for X sync so if it is set a 0 ms. it would work for me. Good evening all and thanks again...Don
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Feb 25 2008 :  8:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgillette4

[quote]Originally posted by dgillette4

[quote]Originally posted by dgillette4
I was thinking of trying to use it for X sync so if it is set a 0 ms. it would work for me. Good evening all and thanks again...Don



I assume you want to use a strobe flash vs bulbs since bulbs are not readily available. It`s quite possible the Hakosyn device I`m referring to is capable of both since the flash timing is dependant upon exactly where the cam piece is positioned when mounted on the shutter speed dial.
Personally, I`ve never seen or used one and maybe few others here have since it`s a 40`s- 50`s item and I`m close to 66 yrs myself.
ritzcam.com (collector cameras)has one and I was originally tempted to order it because I`d like to have flash capability on any one of my FSU`s.
However it appears that it would be inconvenent to have to set it up and calibrate sync everytime I wanted to use a flash so I`ll pass on it.
The only other option is to have a PC sync professionally installed but who does this kind of work these days?
John
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 26 2008 :  1:20:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dobryj den : I ordered the Hakosyn today and we'll try it out when it comes. Don
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
988 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 26 2008 :  1:32:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The good old flashbulbs have a very special feeling, and during past years I have bought a lifetime stock of them at flea markets. Usually nobody else is interested in them, so price is ridiculously low. In USA even the odd batteries like 22,5V are possible to get from Radioshack, at least when I last bought them. Now in my freezer to be used sometimes 2020?

Smena rules
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Feb 26 2008 :  4:56:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgillette4

Dobryj den : I ordered the Hakosyn today and we'll try it out when it comes. Don



Congrats! Don , you might become the resident expert on this subject after experimenting with that device . I sincerely hope you share your findings with us.
John
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 26 2008 :  6:09:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I certainly will John, and as far as 22.5 volt batteries go they can be made in a stack by yourself or ordered There is a place in Calif. that can make whatever voltage and size needed .,I will check for the web site. Reminds me I have some old portable radios that use 67v batteries...Ahh nostalgia. This site is a good place to get away from all the high tech electronics. I believe film will always be manufactured if not here elsewhere. Such as at Freestyle co. At least in my lifetime since I'm 62 now...
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 26 2008 :  6:19:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The web site for those batteries is www.photobattery.com they have the 22.5volt 15 volt for the b.c flash units Don
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Feb 29 2008 :  6:03:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just an update on the Hakosyn synchronizer , It arrived today and first thing I did was measurements. The foot of the unit had to be filed a bit to fit the Zorki 1 and the shutter part had to be filed just a little to fit. Once done I put a piece of white paper in the film plane of the camera, Then set the shutter on 1/20 second. Once I got the proper location I tested it and it works just fine, There was a full illumination of the white paper. The only problem is that to shoot outdoors I have to remove the shutter dial end of the unit so as to see the dial. At least I made the camera more usuable at b-day parties....Don
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 01 2008 :  08:54:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgillette4

Just an update on the Hakosyn synchronizer , It arrived today and first thing I did was measurements. The foot of the unit had to be filed a bit to fit the Zorki 1 and the shutter part had to be filed just a little to fit. Once done I put a piece of white paper in the film plane of the camera, Then set the shutter on 1/20 second. Once I got the proper location I tested it and it works just fine, There was a full illumination of the white paper. The only problem is that to shoot outdoors I have to remove the shutter dial end of the unit so as to see the dial. At least I made the camera more usuable at b-day parties....Don



Hi Don,
I`m regretting my being hesitant to purchase it.
But I am glad that it worked out for you .
John
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 01 2008 :  12:18:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well John: Someday I will tire of having to put it all together and I'll sell it to you or swap. I was thinking of just mounting a switch in side the body near the shutter speed shaft and have it permanently installed to a pc socket. I have to weigh the cost of modifying it vs: keeping it all original. Don
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 01 2008 :  12:51:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgillette4

Well John: Someday I will tire of having to put it all together and I'll sell it to you or swap. I was thinking of just mounting a switch in side the body near the shutter speed shaft and have it permanently installed to a pc socket. I have to weigh the cost of modifying it vs: keeping it all original. Don



I`ve been toying with the idea of making something myself to use on my Z-3 and Z-3M but nothing that would alter the body itself.
John
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 02 2008 :  07:14:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here`s another interesting flash sync (below link) that I managed to find for only $8.99. It`s a Kalart flash sync device sold in the 50/60`s.
This one , unlike the Soviet camera mount plunger type will not induce camera shake when using. But I`m not sure that is a factor with flash lighting but very well could be considering the slow shutter sync speeds .
John

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120149943850&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=002#ebayphotohosting

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Mar 02 2008 07:23:27 AM
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 02 2008 :  11:48:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another possibility would be to use the rotating cam in the bottom of the film chamber. Don't know where to mount pc socket. I sort of remember Leitz making one a long time ago. Unless there's a way through the tripod socket. At 1/20 second the flash would stop the action, but if you had high speed film there could be ghosting. Don
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 02 2008 :  11:54:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That type of synchronizer would sure keep the camera original, Using 1/20 sec shutter could cause ghosting with high speed film. This one i'm using works but is a bit awkward I think Leitz had a replacement base plate for their cameras with a p.c. socket in the tripod socket, I'm a bit hazy though maybe it's the age here. Don
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 07 2008 :  09:26:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Don,
I tried to email you this but your excite email is returning it to me.
Just for general subject interest , take a look at this old flash sync setup.
It apparently was made for a Leica camera . Check out the dual shutter release/flash button.
All this slides into the accessory shoe.
John
http://www.pbase.com/johnd1/image/93869142

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Mar 07 2008 09:27:07 AM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4204 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2008 :  09:45:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Quite an apparatus there John! .. just for entertainment's sake, here is a hand made sync made by one of our members on Kiev:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=76&ParentID=1&ContentID=624&Item=Kiev+II+synchro+flash

Vlad.
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 07 2008 :  4:18:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember seeing that one somewhere Vlad. It looks similar to what I`d expect a factory retrofit to look like. I wish I knew someone dependable who could do this work in a professional manner.
I`d have both my Z-3 and Z-3M fitted with the flash sync. I can`t see how this feature would seriously hurt the value of the camera since it enhances it`s useability.

John

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Mar 07 2008 4:23:27 PM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4204 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2008 :  5:07:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From what I've learned in my long less-than-years of collecting from knowledgeable folks here, in collector's eyes, any time you -make modifications to an original camera you're destroying its historical value... even though Zorki-3 and Zorki-3M are somewhat rare, I wouldn't consider it a huge travesty if you modify them... if you would've done something like that to a Sport or Pre-war Smena, a lot of people from this forum would've threw stones at you

Vlad
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  07:46:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, and well understood too . Serious collectors would want the camera original without the flash sync but if it was a user (myself) choice he would probably prefer the flash option.
I might never be able to find someone to do this but if I did I think there are enough of the Z-3 and Z-3M`s around to make my slightly alterated cameras negligeable. I see available and not a blow to Russian camera history.
Believe me if I thought they were so few examples of these models i would not consider it but there are plenty of these on Ebay. There is a nice pair of them presently on the bay for sale .
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  09:13:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
may be you can hunt for that : original from KMZ


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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  09:38:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It might come down to that one but first I have to try this one that should arrive very soon.
http://www.pbase.com/johnd1/image/93904847
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  12:48:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There was a unit like this that they called a passivated synchronizer for non sync cameras. The only problem with these and other units even the Hakkosyn that I have is that they have to be set up exactly the same each time you use them. The same number of turns on the release able or location of the shutter dial attachment. The best is still internally installed sync. I test sync with white paper and 1/20 each time I install it. Don
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  3:48:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgillette4

There was a unit like this that they called a passivated synchronizer for non sync cameras. The only problem with these and other units even the Hakkosyn that I have is that they have to be set up exactly the same each time you use them. The same number of turns on the release able or location of the shutter dial attachment. The best is still internally installed sync. I test sync with white paper and 1/20 each time I install it. Don



Yes Don , there`s no question that these are all borderline contraptions at best with calibration specific to each camera being essential and at the same time repetative with each subsequent use once removed from the camera.
Still, I would think the auto mechanical Geiss and Hakosync types are somewhat of an improvement of a sort and undoubtedly more consistant (once set/calibrated) since they don`t rely on the inconsistant / uneven / undependable synchronization created by flesh pressure by a push of a thumb transferred to the calibrated depth of a plunger on a shutter release.
The more my mechanical mind thinks about this the more it becomes evident that this is all an exercise in futility.
But it`s part of the fun too I suppose.
John

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Mar 08 2008 3:52:32 PM
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2008 :  6:54:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes John: but does it work with daylignt flash powder? I couldn't help it ,forgive me. When I worked in a camera shop my partner and I discussed wierd things like these, Not that color film was a problem then. And your'e right about the flash unit. The hakosyn would be pretty stable, maybe it's all the snow we are getting here in Michigan , have a great evening..Don
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2008 :  10:34:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

I'd just like to to say that I have a Soviet made cable release flash synchro hidden away somewhere in the attic of my home.
It's a few years since I've seen it, but as I remember it looks a little like the Soviet pneumatic self timers that turn up from time to time.
Next time I'm home I will try to find it and post a picture, but unfortunately that won't be until the end of next month.
Regards,
Jim.
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Peter Knowlden
Pushkin
Canada
19 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2008 :  6:45:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just noticed this thread and think you may be interested in the "surprise" Zorki 2 I found on Ebay.
When it arrived it had an Orion 15 lens on it (not mentioned in description) and this rather clever flash synch that has the connector on the baseplate and a neat little cam on the extended shutter dial shaft. I tried it at 1/25 sec and it works very well.See picture
Pushkin
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4204 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 11 2008 :  8:29:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Peter, you forgot the picture

Thanks,
Vlad.
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 12 2008 :  11:07:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All: Just in case , there is a Leica base synchronizer for sale for $89 plus shipping on E-Bay, whats interesting would be to check all the dimensions to see how much difference or similarity there is between leica and Zorki-Fed. Or can somebody on forum enlighten me. Great idea though. Don
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
988 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2008 :  2:13:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37

may be you can hunt for that : original from KMZ






I have now one, 6.50 euros from Tallinn in Estonia

More abut my new goodies later, we arrived only a couple of hours ago so no pics yet...

Smena rules
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 19 2008 :  08:36:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The one pictured above looks like the exact one that Fedka has listed at $39.
It must be operated with a shutter release cable. Possibly quite useable on a tripod but hand holding use has to be tough. Calibration on a particular camera must be done and difficult to find an exact setting that works consistantly..
I have a flexible adaptation that works simlarly but it too is difficult to calibrate with any degree of dependability.
John

Edited by - uccmmcpo on Mar 19 2008 08:39:10 AM
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 19 2008 :  08:41:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by uccmmcpo

The one pictured above looks like the exact one that Fedka has listed at $39.
It must be operated with a shutter release cable. Possibly quite useable on a tripod but hand holding use has to be tough. Calibration on a particular camera must be done and difficult to find an exact setting that works consistantly..
I have a flexible adaptation that works simlarly but it too is difficult to calibrate with any degree of dependability.
John



Oh boy, I think I`m repeating much of what I wrote earlier. Sorry.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
988 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 19 2008 :  2:46:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote


Smena rules
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John Demastrie
uccmmcpo
USA
92 Posts
Posted - Mar 20 2008 :  09:09:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interestingly I took apart a Fed 2 yesterday to repair the flash and I found that flash contact is made (at all speeds) as the shutter is depressed. I would have thought that contact is made as a shutter cam rotated but it appears to be purely mechanical and caused from a push of the shutter. It makes contact just as the shutter is released and obviously at 1/30 sec the curtain is open long enough for it to work within an acceptable tolerance.
John
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts
Posted - Mar 20 2008 :  10:26:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just maybe the Hakosyn unit would be reliable once calibrated to the shuttter speed dial since that doesen't change, either would the shutter rod inside the body. The only problem as I said is that I can't see the shutter speed dial once the cap is on ;the unit. Maybe I could engrave shutter speeds on the adapter cap, A bit time consuming. Don
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Mar 21 2008 :  11:02:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Btw, this synchronizer Russian manual is there:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/mans/synchronizer/synchronizer.html
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