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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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 Posted - Apr 20 2008 : 9:07:10 PM
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OK Jacques!
Here are some photographs of my camera, which I am quite sure is authentic, as upon close examination it can be seen that the camera's top rangefinder plate (and everything else) appears to be completely original and untouched, including original dirt, etc. Also it is only a few serial numbers away from the passport shown on the DVDTech site.
It will be interesting to see other serial numbers and photos of the engravings for comparison.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 12:03:03 AM
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Thank you Bill! What I do like about having this camera is that the actual year on the engraving helps a lot on placing the serial number ranges of post-war FED 1 into context more precisely. Give you a good solid milestone within production, since all the serials are quite cryptic.
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 03:58:40 AM
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Thanks a lot for your fine pictures, Bill! No need I buy a numerics if you are here! 
I had forgotten my Pegorari's booklets. No doubt: my "anniversary" is a true one too, at least by the engravings. Princelle doesn't speak of this camera.
I'm going to look for the two or three sites where I saw such "anniversaries" with different engravings. It could help to compare!
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 05:06:42 AM
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Here are the two sites I was speaking of:
-The famous Nathan Dayton's one:
http://www.commiecameras.com/sov/35mmrangefindercameras/cameras/fed/index.htm
Look at the last picture of Fed-1(g): no inscription of "Factory named after FE Dzerjinsky".
-The illustrious Ian Norris's one:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/fedeng.htm
On the picture, one can see a tab on the accessory clip. This tab was eliminated before WW2, with the NKVD 1c.
A pity we cannot have the serial numbers of these two ones!
In fact, Fed certainly used covers of 1f or early 1g cameras (with two engravings), put the red inscription at the place of the serial number, and engraved this number at the back. It's really surprising we cannot have some more precise information about these cameras... Perhaps we collect them because of their part of mystery?
Amitiés. Jacques.
Edit: on these two sites, the "4" (1654- 1954) are not the same as on our cameras... They are opened; ours are closed.
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Edited by - Jacques M. on Apr 21 2008 11:35:14 AM |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Apr 21 2008 : 11:59:22 AM
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Hi Jacques,
Yes, I believe that both the examples you have pointed to, one Commie Cameras site and one on Ian Norris's site are fakes. As you say, the "4" is opened at the top, and also you can see that the spacing of the "3" ("Z") before "Moscow" is larger.
So this is the way you can tell the fakes, in my experience. I would also guess that the serial numbers of these two don't fall within the range of the others we have listed.
Regards, Bill
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2020 : 4:09:52 PM
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Thank you, Jacques!
The only difference is the black filling of the engraving on top and in the serial number.
It is also seen on #465569 owned by levonsa.
http://ussrcameras.ru/catalog/480
But #468456 also has black engravings and is in the second batch after mine so that's of no use.
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?414372438
By the way, I noticed Sovietcams also reached the conclusion only about 300 cameras were made. I should read more sources before reinventing the wheel every time...
Anyway I wouldn't expect great differences, it is less than 3.000 serials between the first and last known FED1 Anniversary, nothing in the camera itself should have changed. From the attestat of #468414, the earliest known of the 2nd batch, we know it was made in late May '54. So the first batch was probably made not much earlier, also in May '54. According to Wikipedia #424001 - #560000 were produced in 1954, 136k cameras. That's about 370 cameras a day or the entire Anniversary serial range in a week. Even if this is an overestimate it looks like they took a day's production of cameras and some weeks later again a day's production - or even less. Strange.
Unfortunately I know little about Ukrainian history but according to Wikipedia there was a massive state-organized celebration of the 300 year anniversary of the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1954 but when exactly? The 1654 treaty was finalized in March/April, but it appears the main celebrations of 1954 took place in summer. Late enough for the cameras to be finished.
quote:
In February 1954 the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR) transferred Crimea as a gift to Ukraine from the Russians; even if only 22 percent of the Crimean population were ethnic Ukrainian. 1954 also witnessed the massive state-organised celebration of the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Pereyaslav; the treaty which brought Ukraine under Russian rule three centuries before. The event was celebrated to prove the old and brotherly love between Ukrainians and Russians, and proof of the Soviet Union as a "family of nations"; it was also another way of legitimising Marxism–Leninism.
We have to assume Ukrainian-Russian relations were a delicate and highly political subject back then even more than today. Nikita Khrushchev was, in contrast to Stalin, pro-Ukrainian and sought to integrate Ukraine deeper into the USSR with the symbolic 'gift' of crimea, yet on the other hand this campaign was of course mainly intended to curb Ukrainian nationalism and separatism. 'Together forever in Moscow' says it all.
In this light it seems plausible not only FED but also Kiev/Arsenal participated with a commemorative camera, however it seems extremely few were made - Why?
They made over 100K FED1'g' in '54 but only 300 commemorative cameras?
With the Kiev I wonder if they are authentic at all. Two samples with different engraving in Russian/Ukrainian does not sound like an official production.
It would be highly interesting to know how and to whom they were sold or given as gift. It seems strange zero documents exist, I understand a lot was lost in the war but this was 1954 so documentation and even official advertisements and media coverage like in camera magazines should still be somewhere.
Pure speculation from my side but two explanations for the lack of both cameras and official documentation:
1) it was never an official camera version but a special factory job given to only a few selected people
2) party officials changed their mind or determined that "together forever in Moscow" was not a successful propaganda line and soon halted production/distribution of these cameras and their advertising to the public.
So many things we don't know but especially with this version I think we have to take politics into account. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2020 : 3:40:26 PM
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Very interesting, Alexander!
What is the lens serial number?
To my knowledge this serial range was produced in 1955 so too late and the serial is in the wrong place.
The red engraving on the top plate is obviously different and the text below FED logo is missing so this camera surely was not produced by the same person and with the same equipent as the classic 'Anniversaries'. Maybe this is why it was cheap. A 'fake'. Other differing versions, some obviously crude fakes, are known, see above. But to my knowledge even 'true' FED Anniversary cameras were never sold for a particularly high price despite their low numbers.
I keep wondering about solid evidence any of these cameras were officially produced by FED in 1954 and not by a skilled craftsman in the 80s or 90s like FED sport, stereo or Zorki Yura. Remember all it takes to fake an Anniversary is to grind down the top plate, reengrave and you can put any serial number on the back.
.) there is an alleged passport for #468414 dated 21 V 1954. Anyone seen it? Is it specifically for a commemorative version or just an 1g passport?
.) there is the special commemorative box. Does anyone have it? Not impossible to fake but quite some work
.) there are 2 distinct batches with some space with known normal 1g in between. Why fake this?
.) lens 'serials' seem to be 9xxx for 2nd batch, only one known lens for 1st in 3xxx range.
Still, is this enough?
On the other hand we have - except for the alleged passport - not a single contemporary document or mention of this camera though the celebrations were a huge propaganda event. No word about the Anniversary by Princelle either. Why produce only 300 cameras? It seems a ridiculously low number for an official factory job.
Has anyone tried to contact FED about this camera? They should have documents, this was way post war so no excuse for the complete loss of all paperwork.
So right now I am undecided and see 3 possibilities. Each one has its pros and cons.
1) original FED factory production in 1954
2) inofficially made by factory workers or only for internal distribution in 1954
3) much later fake made by a craftsman
What do you think? |
Edited by - Niko80 on May 27 2020 3:56:41 PM |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2020 : 3:58:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Niko80
...
The red engraving on the top plate is obviously different and the text below FED logo is missing so this camera surely was not produced by the same person and with the same equipent as the classic 'Anniversaries'.
...
The text below FED logo is generaly missing on the last FED 1g issues, It has nothing to do with fake or not. Your camera is FED 1f.
The serial number of lens is 1249, but I cannot garantee, that this lens was originaly mouned on this camera.
Regards, Alexander |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 01 2020 : 11:25:17 AM
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Hi all,
these later models are indeed an enigma, it is generally accepted in collectors circles right now that the true genuine without any doubt anniversary FED is in 4XX,XXX serial number range, serial number engraved on top cover instead of body and З in "З Москвою" needs to be small.
The other ones are always approached with caution as it is a rumor that in 1990s a lot were fake made for ebay. But I'll definitely be cool if it's a later variation.
Best regards,
Vlad. |
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Edgar
1 Posts |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2020 : 10:56:09 AM
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Interesting, Edgar!
It is now the latest known example of the first batch. Apart from the added flash sync it looks like the usual examples, I see nothing odd in the engraving.
Is this your camera?
If so could you please tell us the lens number?
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2020 : 11:22:27 AM
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Thanks, Edgar!
Another camera, added in the wiki. Same first batch.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
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xya
France
159 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2020 : 2:39:16 PM
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Hem... Yes, I must confess...
Amitiés, Reinhart!
Jacques.
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2020 : 08:14:20 AM
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Many thanks, Alexey!
A similar passport exists for the s/n 468414, lens s/n 9979 on DVD Technik site.
I add yours in the wiki.
BTW, what is the meaning of the red word in diagonal?
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2020 : 08:23:18 AM
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I realise that the two passports bear the same date: 21 of may 1954. The complete batch can have been released at the same time... |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2020 : 2:25:38 PM
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Hello Jacques!
Diagonal red inscription: Anniversary
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2020 : 2:28:05 PM
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Jacques, can I ask you to make a table of famous cameras "Forever at once with Moscow"?
I have a few more numbers, I can add them to your table. Where you indicated in the post, whose I can not add unfortunately. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2020 : 08:46:56 AM
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Very interesting!
May I ask, is there only the passport or do the actual camera and lens exist too? |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2020 : 04:55:26 AM
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Many thanks for the new commentaries and numbers in the wiki, Alexey! Some are very interesting.
I think too that 300 items is probably too restrictive, and 3000 much too important.
Could somebody translate the new article into English?
Thanks. Jacques. |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2020 : 4:18:20 PM
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Niko80
I bought only one certificate without a camera unfortunately! Maybe someday a camera with this number will appear and they will offer me to buy it ?! :))) |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2020 : 08:22:56 AM
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I have found the s/n 466624, lens s/n 3874.
This camera just takes place between the two batches of Fed anniversaries. It is an ordinary 1g: interesting news to limit the number of "anniversaries".
I will post photos when it is here. (added in the wiki).
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2020 : 10:30:44 AM
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Thanks, Alexander.
It's very probably a fake, like the other one you had previously quoted (main feature: the open "4").
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
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Niko80
Austria
174 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2021 : 12:20:55 PM
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An excellend find, Jacques!
Have you compared the top plates of the regular FED1'g' and the 'Anniversary'?
Do you think it is possible someone removed the FED logo and serial by grinding/polishing and re-engraved it as 'Anniversary'?
Is the FED logo identical and in the same place?
Or were indeed pristine top-plates used? |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2021 : 10:20:23 AM
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If I compare a 1f-2nd series and an "anniversary", the logo and the factory are strictly at the same place.
So, the easiest way to fake an "anniversary" is to use a 1f, second series (with number, logo, and factory on cover), to erase the number, replace it by the red inscription, and add a correct serial number on the back of the cover.
Probably Fed used non-numbered 1f-second series covers to make the "anniversaries"...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Fed 1 Anniversary 1654-1954.
