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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 09:43:45 AM
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Hello all,
I own several FED 1 from 1939 to 1941 and all of them have a hole in the pressure plate. I assume that the hole is there to allow body register distance to be matched with lens but to do so, body back should have also a hole to look through.
Among 5 bodies I own, only one seems to have a pierced back which could justify my explaination.
So, is there any other explaination or is it just the result of massive overproduction of drilled pressure plates ?!
Thanks. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 12:31:52 PM
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Hello,
As far as I know, there is no real justification, unless, as you say, that there is a hole in the back to test and regulate the cuple body/lens. This hole in the back disappeared at about # 11500 or so.
The hole in the pressure plate can be found till # c. 150000 so up to 1941, as you say. I don't know anything more!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 12:54:56 PM
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Bonjour Jacques,
Your comment about the hole in the back is interesting. You wrote that it disappeared at about #11500 serial number but my FED has a much higher SN... I don't have it right now in front of me but it is more #8xxxx or #9xxxx if I remember well. I will check as soon as I am back home.
Do you think my camera was rebuild from various "dead bobies" which could explain such oddity (I guess that everything is possible with so old cameras)?
Cordialement. |
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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 4:18:46 PM
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Jacques, I checked the serial number: 94157, far from the 11xxx serie you mentioned.
Another russian mystery... |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 5:14:06 PM
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Bonjour Nicolas,
I think the holes in the back are only for 1a and 1b up to 11500 or so. Difficult to be more precise. No more than 12000, probably. If you have a camera with that hole in the 94xxx, so 1c (YCCP engraving) or 1d (CCCP engravings), I think is has been rebuilt.
It's not very surprising and even very interesting for some cameras: for example I own a 1b (with fine knurling on knobs, oval rangefinder cam, top front center screw obstructed by the lens rim, holes in the back and in the pressure plate etc.) but with the cover of a 1g!.. Certainly the mechanism of a 1b found in some cupboard in the fifties and used to reach the Plan!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Dayton nathandayton
USA
95 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 6:52:00 PM
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The probable explaination for the holes in the pressure plates is that there was a batch of pressure plates made initially with holes in them. At the time they had not perfected setting the register externally. Once they had perfected the external setting of the register they just used the pressure plates they had. "Waste not want not" or perhaps do not get the attention of the KGB for wasteful manufacturing processes.
Because of the great number of skilled techs looking for ways to make money there are large numbers of cameras made from 2 broken ones.
Do not expect their processes to be the same as ours.
If a skilled technician has a lot of time on his hands he can do amazing things. Especially if he is hungry for an extra ruble! |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 6:56:28 PM
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Trés Facile!
Those pressure plates were produced in much larger quentities than the rest of body parts. which were much more difficult to produce. So they used the remaining stock up to the end.
Avec amitié
LP |
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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 7:47:34 PM
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Jacques, it might be a rebuild camera but it is very well adjusted. I disassembled it to change the shutter curtains which were dry and unglued and it was a piece of cake. Now, it works fine with butter smooth winding mechanism and a rather silent shutter.
I have also other FED 1 and some were a pain to work on, difficult to re-assemble as parts were not well adjusted; maybe they were build from not 2 but 3 or more wrecks... |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 04:20:15 AM
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Yes, Nathan. But it would not be very clever to make a 1c or d with parts from 1b which are much more expensive, unless there is a reason to do so. On eBay, some "fake" 1b from 1d are now being sold.
About your special Fed, Nicolas, it would be interesting to have pictures: there are some cosmetic differences between 1b, c and d.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Jun 11 2008 07:54:06 AM |
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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 9:05:19 PM
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Simple
The hole seems to be original in both the back and in the pressure plate.
The original back metal disk was lost, and it seems not to be well repaired. acording to the number, these cameras should have no more holes on the back.
Regards
LP |
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okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 9:06:58 PM
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| Could it be home made "addition" to better fit lens to the camera? |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 9:16:25 PM
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| Could also be |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 9:45:27 PM
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The plug does not really look factory... it would've been neater, look at all the residue around it.
Vlad. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 02:40:25 AM
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Hello Nicolas,
So your NKVD is a 1c (YCCP engraved) with some features of the 1d: no screws under the rewinding button and the central screw is no more obstructed by the lens rim. It's quite ordinary between c.90000 and c.95000.
The hole in the pressure plate is regular. The one in the back looks strange (I agree with Vlad), as if it was made later to regulate the couple body/lens. I own such a body: a S one in the 115xxx on which the work is neater...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 03:14:34 AM
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Hello everyone,
I'm of the same opinion as Jacques and Vlad. To my mind the hole through the vulcanite and back of the camera body was added later, and the quality of the work would suggest not by a professional.
I have several Fed-1-C cameras with serial numbers quite close to this one, and though they all have a hole in the pressure plate, none have a hole through the camera body and vulcanite.
Come to think of it, very few of my Fed-1 cameras have this hole through the vulcanite, even most of the very early ones that I have don't show this feature. I will need to check when I am next home, (two weeks from now), but it would be interesting to know from other forum members how many of their early Fed's, (1a & 1b)have this feature, and how many without.
Regards, Jim. |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 08:26:31 AM
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Hello James,
My Fed Ib s/n #29581 has the hole in the pressure plate (no hole on the back.)
Regards,
Michel.
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Edited by - Michel on Jun 14 2008 08:28:10 AM |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 09:27:38 AM
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Hello Michel,
Jacques and Bill could probably answer your question better than I am able to, but as far as I know the hole pierced through the back of the camera had already dissapeared before serial number 12,000 was reached.
The hole in the pressure plate continued until much, much later. We can only assume that either the pressure plates were produced in vast quantities during 1934, and 1935, or that the Fed factory didn't see the need to modify the punch that stamped the plates out. After all the hole does no harm, and isn't detrimental to the operation of the camera.
That said I have several Fed 1a and 1b prior to serial number 12,000 that have the usual pressure plate with the hole, but no hole pierced all the way through the back.
Your camera serial# 28581 is as I would expect, ie hole in the pressure plate but not pierced through the back.
So we come full circle and that is to say that there are no hard and fast rules where these fascinating cameras are concerned, but that's just part of what makes them so special.
Cheers, Jim |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 09:41:38 AM
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Michel,
My apologies that my reply to your post was long winded. I do realise that you were providing information rather than asking a question. I just seem to get carried away with my own thoughts where these cameras are concerned!!!!
Cheers Jim |
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Don Gillette
dgillette4
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 10:59:48 AM
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Looks like a very sloppy job for factory, maybe someone tried to make it look like an old Leica, When back focus had to be determined to get to infinity setting. Don
ZORKIE'S Survive |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 6:18:29 PM
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James,
No apologies are necessary !
Your answers are very interesting for me.
I'm learning…
Regards,
Michel. |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:02:05 PM
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Hi,
My Fed-1 s/n 82782 stiil has a hole on the pressure plate. I wonder what is the latest one that still has a hole? |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 10:05:24 PM
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My FED 1c 115347 and my FED-S 115356 both have holes in pressure plates. And I just noticed that my FED 1c and my FED-S are only 9 numbers apart!!  Not sure if it's of any significance...
Vlad |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 10:21:22 PM
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Hi Zhang,
In an earlier post on this topic Jacques mentions that some cameras with a serial number as high as 150,000 still have this hole in the pressure plate.
So I guess this was until 1941, just before the factory was evacuated, and seven years after production began.
My own personal thoughts are that the punch used by Fed to stamp out these parts was not modified when the outer hole in the body was discontinued, and that that the factory continued to use the punch as it was. It doesn't make sense to me that Fed would have produced 150,000 of these pressure plates so early in production.
Perhaps having to leave Kharkov then forced Fed to produce a new punch for the next production.
I will be home in the UK in two weeks time and will check my own cameras to see which is the highest serial number still with the hole in the pressure plate.
Best regards, Jim. |
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Nicolas
Gelios
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2008 : 7:22:16 PM
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Vlad, my #109163 FED 1 does not have one... but my #101877 yes ?!
I am not sure we can come to any conclusion as both cameras could have been repaired but on the other hand, pressure plates are not really what I call wearing parts...
Best regards. |
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Frank Lambert
Frankl
USA
40 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2008 : 06:48:07 AM
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Hello,
Frank, you have a fine very early 1c (beginning c. # 55000).
About the holes, what I can say about the limits, considering my 29 Fed 1s:
-Hole in the back: my # 10020 has it, 12840 doesn't.
-Hole in the pressure plate: yes for the 127195, no for the 157694 which is an S.
Always about pressure plates, JLP and Fricke don't speak of holes. Pegorari in his booklets makes a difference between regular 1d-s and 1dS:
-hole up to c. 140000 for S-s only, without after,
-hole up to c. 175000 for regular 1d, no hole after (1e).
Perhaps we can notice too that the shape of these damned pressure plates changed a little two times:
-hole and a "leg" to fix the plate with a screw at the rear of the back of the body to prevent the plate from turning (the two holes must be in alinement). My 10020 has such a leg and I suppose all the 1a-s and first 1b-s have too. All "back holed bodies" must have this leg, for sure.
-hole without leg, for example my regular 1d 127195, the only other one I dismantled,
-without hole.
I agree with Nicolas: all that is probably not really significant: the limits beween holed/non holed plates can be broad...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Jun 17 2008 06:52:26 AM |
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Frank Lambert
Frankl
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2008 : 07:38:31 AM
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My example has "locating tab" on the pressure plate and a positioning screw, the head of which, engages the "U" shaped cut out in the tab. The screw is inserted from the inside and, is finished "flush" with the outer part of the case. While I'm here, can anyone tell be where I may find the parts I need (as mentioned in my previous post on this "thread") to restore this one?
Regards,
Frank... |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2008 : 10:52:08 AM
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Hi Frank,
Thanks for the right word: "locating tab" and not "leg".
For spare parts, you could try sovietcamera.com for the shutter curtains, nobbysparrow on eBay (shutter release ring), and micro-tools.com.
But you can use too "camera repair" through "Seller review and links" on this site.
Cordialement. Jacques. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2008 : 09:12:13 AM
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Hi Frank,
Happy I could help.
Thanks for your kind message. And you are right: leg or tab, it works!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Topic |
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Hole in FED 1 pressure plate: any justification?
