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596 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 07 2009 : 4:56:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by europanorama
totally wrong. horizon s3pro was a big surprise at photokina 04, jan willem markeringk can confirm. he has the best photo-technique-site of the world. we had met at kmz-zenit-stand. i am not sure if s3-pro had not been announced at 02.
See http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/horizon/index.html#horizon-s3
quote:
Originally posted by europanorama
horizon 205pc/pan 120 has/had a great potential, if only they had done some things better.
I think that a film cameras died... I don't like this, but this is the fact.
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Michael Przewrocki
europanorama
Switzerland
65 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 5:49:33 PM
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the inventor of the shift-mechanism left the cooperation leaving the construction to them. i can only guess why. lacking precision and ignorance to do it right. sorry kmz-zenit. i hope this has already been changed. i have just seen a long report about moscov, almost all about the riches. one has just found out that they need precision/quality. look at dubai, the super-riches. forgot to take care of human pollution(toilets). ultra-stupid.look at the bank-crisis. some swiss analysts who warned early enough were fired...
no -film-cameras will never die. look at new bessa/voigtlaender 67.
good 67 cameras will outbeat any dslr at the moment.
this crisis is a good chance for everybody to learn on all levels, right?
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2016 : 09:15:08 AM
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Hello,
thanks to the help of a friend of mine from Moscow, I've just received a Horizon-205 camera (arrived on the past Saturday).
The camera, came complete with its case, filter set of 4, carrying case, instruction booklet and "Pasport". The serial no. is 0100038 and the pasport is dated 05/2011.
I hope I will have the time to test it very soon!
Best wishes,
Enzo - Italy |
Edited by - Elmar Lang on May 16 2016 09:27:38 AM |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4212 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - May 16 2016 : 10:51:16 AM
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| Would love to see the results! |
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Michael Przewrocki
europanorama
Switzerland
65 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - May 24 2016 : 02:49:18 AM
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Be very careful when cocking shutter. dont make a mistake.I could test it at photokina. but didnt have enough time. couldnt get a reasonable result. be aware: below 5m-like with widelux 1500-resolution will decrease. Met a friend in youth hostel who told me when he has seen it at the stand camera broke. i can understand. its slow photography. slowly cock the shutter and mount film the right way.
price still around 2300 euro.
If then i would be interested in Pan 120.
these mechanic rotapancams have ONE decisive advantage infront of NOBLEX: when its windy Noblex cannot rotate. or only with uneven rotation. Had both in helicopter.
i know why there is no 1/250. all mechanical rotapan-cams have a problem during start.even if film is shorter that 120mm. some millimeter are overexposed.
would like to know how exactly is filmsize. and we would like to se a comparision shot maybe of a house with and without shift(7mm).
use a cable-release. and tripod. and focussing must be done properly. i could provide DOF-table. if lens has same CoC(sharpness) like Widelux 1500. Z= 1/48. i added marker inbetween distance-scale.
if somone could write my handwritten data into a table.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D
sorry temp.ltd. access
3DSTEREO-Media
Photos/Panoramas/Videos
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
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Michael Przewrocki
europanorama
Switzerland
65 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - May 04 2020 : 10:03:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Would love to see the results!
There is no Horizon 205 on the market
www.europanorama.tk
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D not visible anymore
sorry website(geocities free)closed. no stereobee java-applet working. |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
993 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - May 04 2020 : 11:03:11 PM
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Enzo, please add your specimen to the wiki catalog
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 04:07:49 AM
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quote:
There is no Horizon 205 on the market
Hello Michael,
thank you for your reply.
Actually, I have two examples of this camera, with subtle differences of manufacture.
The first, bought by a colleague from Moscow at a local camera shop.
The second, bought from an italian hobby photographer: a few pieces of the 205 have been imported some years ago by Lino Manfrotto's Company (the maker of the well-known tripods) and merchandised on the Italian market. I don't know how many pieces have been imported/sold though, but this was advertised on local photo magazines, years ago.
As kindly suggested by Juhani, I will put the data of both my 205's in the wiki catalogue. I hope I will get the authorization to drive up to my laboratory, where my photo equipment is stored (we're living complicate times, in Italy, due to the well-known epidemic…).
All the best and greetings from Northern Italy,
Enzo
Edit:
searching through my papers at home, I've found the data of my two Horizon-205 "PC":
- the first, complete with its pasport, instructions and invoice, is no. 010038, made in May 2011 and re-checked ("pereproveren") in November 2015 (both dates with "OTK-188" stamp). With invoice and guarantee from "Fotozentr", Moscow, Gogolevsky Blvd., December 19th, 2015.
- the second, a piece imported in Italy by Manfrotto Trading, pity without documents, lost by the preceding owner, an old hobby photographer, is no. 010024.
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Edited by - Elmar Lang on May 16 2020 08:00:54 AM |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2022 : 02:54:21 AM
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Hello,
I would like to revive this discussion on the curious Horizon-205 PC panoramic camera.
Apparently, one of such cameras will be up for sale at Leitz Photographica Auction, November 26th 2022, lot nr. 401: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/139632414_kmz-horizon-205-panoramic-camera-prototype
It has an estimate price of 12.000,-/14.000,- Euro and it will start with an opening price of 6.000,- Euro.
The piece is described as a prototype, but I don't see any detail -at least after the pictures provided- that would show any difference from the two cameras I own, both satisfactorily working for my hobby.
Perhaps, better reading the catalogue description one understands that the whole production of the russian 120-film panoramic camera, should be considered as made of prototypes, due to the few pieces assembled/sold.
So, also this post-USSR camera is entering in the dreams of collectors, not only of photographers...
All the best,
Enzo (E.L.) |
Edited by - Elmar Lang on Nov 08 2022 03:27:23 AM |
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SteveA
United Kingdom
127 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2022 : 06:00:53 AM
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Hi Enzo, according to Princelle this is a prototype 6x12cm on 120 rollfilm camera. In his book he shows the one with lever film wind, this one appears to have a knob wind. I think this may be his reference K2802/ the Photokina prototype as he mentions the 'upper hood' is reduced in size with shutter release by button instead of lever. Comparing the picture in Princelles book, I can see that the Leitz one has a thinner top cover and the shutter release button appears to be on the back of the camera rather than the front. It also has handles on the sides of the camera, not present on the Princelle example.
The world is going mad - quite who in their right mind would spend over 6,000 Euros on this escapes me...
Cheers,
Steve |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2022 : 09:54:21 AM
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Hi Steve,
thank you for your kind, interesting reply.
I will take home from my lab, my two 205 cameras that, besides minor (more aesthetic than functional) differences between them, are almost identical to Leitz Auction's piece: both with side handles, both with rear-located shutter release, both with film advance knob etc. and identical "Zenit", padded nylon carrying case with adjustable shoulder strap.
I don't have my Princelle at hand so, I cannot compare the hereby discussed camera, with the piece illustrated in that invaluable book...
Re. the estimate and start price given by Leitz Auction's experts, that's upon them and their knowledge of the market and of the collecting community: the 205 is rare, it was never put in series production like the 202 and the S3Pro (not to mention those made on behalf of the Lomographic Society). This explains why they decided to give such a high valuation.
In the catalogue's description it is reported of a limited run of 20-or-so cameras ever produced.
Here: http://ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=5&ParentID=1&ContentID=307&Item=Horizon+205+PC+%28Panoramic+Camera%29 the colleague Nightphoto created the Wiki-Catalog page on the 205 (updated with the data of my two pieces); there, he reports as follow:
"(...)The prototype of this medium format model was made circa 1992 and a pre-production model shown at Photokina in 1994. Very few of these cameras have been produced, possibly as few as 24 (as stated on the KMZ website production page), or maybe a few more than that.(...).
Does anyone know the link to where KMZ declares the number of cameras they made?
In my opinion, the story (and the yet untold story) about this heavy, beautiful camera, still waits to be written!...
All the best,
Enzo |
Edited by - Elmar Lang on Nov 08 2022 10:03:37 AM |
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Alex_Rus
Russia
34 Posts |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2022 : 10:12:13 AM
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Thank you, Alex, for the provided info!
Enzo |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2022 : 1:09:59 PM
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| I see that the Horizon-205PC that was offered in auction on the past Saturday, remained unsold... |
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Michael Przewrocki
europanorama
Switzerland
65 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 30 2022 : 6:22:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by europanorama
Be very careful when cocking shutter. dont make a mistake.I could test it at photokina. but didnt have enough time. couldnt get a reasonable result. be aware: below 5m-like with widelux 1500-resolution will decrease. Met a friend in youth hostel who told me when he has seen it at the stand camera broke. i can understand. its slow photography. slowly cock the shutter and mount film the right way.
price still around 2300 euro.
If then i would be interested in Pan 120.
these mechanic rotapancams have ONE decisive advantage infront of NOBLEX: when its windy Noblex cannot rotate. or only with uneven rotation. Had both in helicopter.
i know why there is no 1/250. all mechanical rotapan-cams have a problem during start.even if film is shorter that 120mm. some millimeter are overexposed.
would like to know how exactly is filmsize. and we would like to se a comparision shot maybe of a house with and without shift(7mm).
use a cable-release. and tripod. and focussing must be done properly. i could provide DOF-table. if lens has same CoC(sharpness) like Widelux 1500. Z= 1/48. i added marker inbetween distance-scale.
if somone could write my handwritten data into a table.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D
sorry temp.ltd. access
3DSTEREO-Media
Photos/Panoramas/Videos
1. there has never been a horizon 205, fact.
2. size of film is not 6 x12
3. reason why not quicker than 1/60 is the old widelux/widepanproblem with overexposure at start. we tried to improve on my w1500 but overexposure only moved a bit to the left, start of 50 x 122mm. all details in my forum: new domain rotapancams.net
NEVER EVER THINK ABOUT BUYING widelux 1500. bad surprises are waiting. wrong design and production from 3rd parties. also second one -replacemtn by panon: crap. spend 5800 usd for crapcam. spent another 2000 chf for overhaul. it was my repairman who found out what was wrong.i made DOF-table.found a similar one discussing COC. its really 1/48, i compared universal DOF table with mine. COC if not defined by producer is individual, depending what is critical sharpness from A to B.
4. dont expect sharp images below 5m.also not on 205 PC and PAN 120(Manfrottos Export Model looking totally different).
for W1500 closeup lens was made, never saw results. for widepan 140(2 different models) closeup lenses were made seen on ebay.!Noblex seem to have solved that problem maybe due to smaller slit or different optic. who knows? i used first model nr, 19 with closeup lens resulting in very sharp images. noblex has better coating. better in difficult light. lens needs slit-sunshade. made for both. same on Roundshot 65/70/220.on noblex uv-filter with slit-tape. on other slitted cap on roundshot covered with velvet.
maybe i will replace that with musou velvet= darket black see also its paint.
due to long FL of 50mm these cam are not easy to focus or taking decision what distance to set. true for nearer distances. i added inbetween markers e.g. in DOF table named. 3.1- 3.2. so we had 3 ' ' 5 etc.
thats why i had troubles getting sharp images in narrow photokina space aroun KMZ-stand. at least i got berlebach tripod.
mechanical rotapancams have big advantage over noblex. under windy conditions better for gettin electronic noblex altogether.
only 3 exposure times is a bit mess on these. doublexposures impossible camera will shake/move when cocking. one must attach/change ND-filters. someone made magnetic filter sistem for widelux 1500. Dont buy for shooting. lens is misaligned.one side unsharp!!!!!!and terrible banding nit light leaks.
read elsewhere maybe photrio about details or in rotapancams.net if you register.also noblex prototypes offered for high prices.
www.stereopan.org
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D not visible anymore
sorry website(geocities free)closed. no stereobee java-applet working. |
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Michael Przewrocki
europanorama
Switzerland
65 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Nov 30 2022 : 6:34:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AidasCams
Happy to say, that Pan-120 (export version of Horizon-205 PC) today arrived safely to me from Sweden! While beeing a big man, this camera doesn't seems as matchboxes when hanging on my neck ... 
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/pan-120.jpg
Regards,
Aidas
Rainer K. Lampinen Tampere created the shiftlens-design and let it to KMZ-Zenith. he also created Technopan. identical to S3Pro but with 202-lens so most perfext. see diffraction at 11/16 for S3Pro and other models of the newest series.
NB: How to edit messages?
www.stereopan.org
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D not visible anymore
sorry website(geocities free)closed. no stereobee java-applet working. |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
993 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Dec 01 2022 : 11:26:56 AM
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"Rainer K. Lampinen Tampere"
Tampere is city where he lives here in Finland, Rainer K. Lampinen is the persons name.
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Elmar Lang
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2022 : 06:34:57 AM
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Hello,
I am a hobby photographer where only sometimes photography enters in my profession.
In the late 80s until the mid 90s I've been a passionate collector of USSR-made cameras and lenses; a collection that between 2000 and 2007 I've sold with no regret, happy for how amusing and instructive it was (ok, I kept for me, not selling the Kiev-1947...). Now, I am buying some again, remaining in the Kiev rangefinder area. I like panoramic cameras too, and that explains why with some luck I've found two Horizon-205 PC cameras...
I wouldn't say that the Horizon 205 PC doesn't exist: I have two of them (one purchased in Moscow at a photo dealer, "Fotozentr" ul. Gogolevskij, December 2015. The camera, after its "Pasport" was made in 2011 and "revised/improved" in 2015, all added with the "OTK" stamps.
My second 205-PC was property of an Italian photographer, who purchased it at a photo dealer in Milan (he lost the papers), but remembering that it was imported by Manfrotto.
The "Pasport" of my first 205-PC indicates the format as 50x110, as also stated in its original instruction booklet (Russian language).
So, it's a fact too, that 2 Horizon-205 PC are property of someone (me), one more, was in auction, and further pieces do exist and are reported here and elsewhere through photos of actual cameras.
Said that, and writing as a hobbyist only, I can say that the Horizon-205 satisfied me either in its functionality or in results. The scans I've posted above, are just low-res ones from bright, detailed negatives.
Wishing a nice weekend,
Enzo (E.L.) |
Edited by - Elmar Lang on Dec 03 2022 10:40:35 AM |
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Horizon 205 PC (Panoramic Camera)
