| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Pravda |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:21:21 PM
Hello friends,
I have acquired one of these lovely cameras and I am really impressed, fit and finish is far above any other Russian camera I own. I don't quite see what is so "rapid fire" about the tigger mechanism but that's another matter.
I am wondering what the lever on the right side of the camera is (opposite the shutter). Translating the russian manual i found online it reads "the lever to switch off the back of the shutter interval" (????)
also the manual states some warnings about setting the shutter. The ussual one about cocking before setting speed and then someing about moving between 1/2 sec and 1/30 and also high speeds (1/250, 1/500, 1/1000). Can someone familiar with Russkisie help me out with it. I really don't want to do something stupid and ruin the shutter on the camera.
Thanks in advance guys.
He who invented beer is a wise man indeed - Plato |
| 34 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 26 2015 : 2:27:58 PM
I don't know how the system looks on Prakticas but I have an Agfa Flexilette that employes a wind lever on the gottom that one has to drive with the left thumb to wind the film. A very easy operation to be honest. And it winds from right to left- the reverse way... |
| Lenny |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 6:20:14 PM
The Canon is a normal system (normal like a Zorki) and because of it the Canon needs only one chain-wheel. Both triggers (Canon and Droug) pull to the same side so that the left hand can be used for film advance. But because the Droug is a reverse system it needs an additional chain-wheel. I still can't understand the reason why the Droug was made as a reverse system. Makes no sense to me.
If you ride your bicycle with a dry chain the chain will make much noise because of friction. This friction will wear on the surface of the chain-plates and without oil it will get rusty and very stiff. But on a bicycle the smallest chain-wheel is still much much bigger than on a Droug and the Droug has 2 much smaller chain-wheels. I'm sure, after years without service the Droug chain can't be working smooth.
Why even have all the hazzle with the chain when you can have a wind-lever. A wind-lever which rotates only must not be slower to operate than a trigger which pulls to the side. There were Prakticas which had the wind-lever on the bottom to be used with the left hand. For these Prakitcas their reverse system made sense (reverse to Zorkis). Wind with the left hand and shoot with the right hand. Simple technic and much better. This would have been a nice idea for a Zorki-7, fast, small body and not expensive.
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 4:42:41 PM
If the Drug had a "normal winding system" this would be a left side winding system.like Exakta
the bottom trigger forces the film advance lay-out to be that way.
The presence of the two gears in no way makes the advance harder than the other.
Canon and Drugs suffer from stiffness and so, they were descontinued
Leicavit and Abrahamson quick advance which is a copy of RotSchild's Camcraft are slightly less brute because being a removable unit it fuctuates during advance operation and adjusts itself to the center of the shaft of main empty câmera roll. Even so, these systems had no success at all.
Today Lomography has a four lensed plastic sequence câmera that has a similar systemusing nylon cord instead of chain and frequently the system breaks, making the câmera inoperable.
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| Lenny |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 09:44:36 AM
Now, after watching Ulrich's photos of his Drougs again in the other thread, I see that only the Droug had a reverse system and instead the Canon had a normal system and the Leicavit must be a normal system either because it's a add-on. So why was a reverse system needed for the Droug? |
| Lenny |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 09:32:50 AM
It's the friction between the plates of the chain. When new it was working but after years without oil the friction can be too much and the smaller the chain-wheels are the more friction you will get. The second chain-wheel of the Droug is very small.
The Leicavit has one advantage, the body is much bigger. If Leica used a chain also, their chain could be bigger. There could be a spacer between the chain-plates which will bring the friction down. These spacers could be made of copper or could have special coatings. For Droug and Canon it was important to keep the body small.
Canon's advantage is their reverse system, only one chain-wheel needed. I can even think of a reverse system without a chain. |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 16 2015 : 07:49:01 AM
Jacques said that his Canon had the same winding problem as Drug. Maybe one or two wheels doesn't have that much influence on the force needed to wind. Leicavit on the other hand is reported to operate smoothly. But Leicavit is an add-on, not built-in like in Canon VI-T or Drug. Maybe that is the reason for smoother operation, or some other construction finesse that Leice used, like ball-bearings, etc. |
| Lenny |
Posted - Feb 15 2015 : 2:46:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo
Here the winding mechanim od Canon VI-T (also V-T)
extremely similar to Droug
Thank you Luiz,
similar but very different. The Canon has only one chain wheel and the trigger pulls to the other direction. That's much better because the additional chain wheel of the Droug is even smaller and takes much energy. The Canon should work much better.
I wonder which construction is older, the Canon or the Droug. |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 15 2015 : 1:36:42 PM
Here the winding mechanim od Canon VI-T (also V-T)
extremely similar to Droug
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1522015_canon VI T winding mechanism.png
Regards
LP
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| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 11 2015 : 09:09:06 AM
Wow Luiz,
You are a wealth of info.
Thanks for the clarification!
Regards,
Marko |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 10 2015 : 1:46:58 PM
in order to see Drug mechanics go to
http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8056
http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8056&start=20
http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8056&start=40
http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8056&start=60
Regards
LP
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 10 2015 : 1:23:23 PM
Excuse but all Prakticas since the beginning have a different mechanics they are similar to Edixas and in reverse sense of Exaktas
Droug is much simpler and has a reverssed Zorki lay-out
Regards
LP |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 10 2015 : 1:08:52 PM
Excuse but all Prakticas since the beginning have a different mechanics they are similar to Edixas and in reverse sense of Exaktas
Droug is much simpler and has a reverssed Zorki lay-out
Regards
LP |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 08 2015 : 10:02:40 AM
Yes Luiz, this the Canon Jacques referred to- I think. I never owned one, but I suppose it's like Jacgues says- triggers share a common "issue"- stiffness.
Leicavit on the other hand is an add-on type (or so I've read in the forums) and that may be the reason why they wind smoother. Apart from the legendary build quality.
Milo- you're right, my repairman said that Drug shutter is like the one in early Prakticas. The word 'early' somehow slipped my mind, or I didn't think of it as important. Now that you mention it, it surely is. I don't know how either of the shutter mechanism looks like. But one day..... |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 6:48:10 PM
See the basis Canon Vt - pictures from Cameraquest.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/722015_canos Vt.png
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| Valkir1987 |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 1:52:21 PM
I have had a Droug for repair, they are not very common. Parts are hard to find. I even had to visit a mechanical workshop for making and soldering parts, but it was worth it. It took me very long to repair, but the owner was very patient and happy when everything worked again. He uses it to make protraits with the Jupiter 9.
The shutter is based on the one found in the Exakta (and early Praktica) The fact that the film runs in oposite direction is something you need to get used to.
As a user it is a nice camera. I had the privilege to test it after repair, screen printed frames. For the transport you indeed need some feeling. |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 09:43:02 AM
Thanks Vlad,
I was hoping you would jump in with your experience since you wrote that Drug is your favourite user. My repairman actually never saw a Drug before since they have never been sold in Slovenia (ex Yugoslavia), but he used the same comparison as you have. He said that Leica has buttery smooth operation and these Drugs are now functional but one needs some "feeling" to operate them. I found it interesting he didn't say one needs force, but feeling to wind and operate them.
I have also asked him if they look anything like Zorkis inside, since the project was named Zorki 7 at the beginning. He said that the shutter mechanism actually is quite different from the Zorkis and is simillar to Praktica's mechanism.
When I grow up, I want to be able to service my cameras!
Regards to all and thank you for your input.
P.S.: I noticed in another thread that Ulrich has serviced his Drugs as well. I wonder how it worked out.... |
| Vlad |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 09:26:25 AM
Hi Marko,
I have a few Drug cameras in very nice condition, they are all also very tough to wind, I only have one Drug that was specifically serviced by Yuri at Fedka.com that was made to be the most smooth out of all Drugs I've tried but still not as smooth as let's say Leicavit.
Cheers,
Vlad |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 09:20:26 AM
Thank you Jacques,
it feels good to have affirmative feedback!
Good luck,
Marko |
| Jacques M. |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 03:22:28 AM
Hi!
I have a Drug too, and the trigger is very difficult to move. Like on your camera.
Probably all the trigger systems have more or less this problem. It's the same on my Fed Sport. I had a LTM Canon which had the same illness...
WD40 to clean, and light lithium grease after: it's also what I use.
Amitiés. Jacques. |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 02:36:37 AM
Thanks Jed,
it looks like my Drugs are not special in this regard. I posted the same question in rangefinderforum and another member said that lithium grease worked well on his FED 2. And that WD40 may not be too bad as a cleaning agent only...
Cheers,
Marko |
| jed |
Posted - Feb 06 2015 : 3:30:59 PM
Hi Marko,
I've had one, now lost :(
Anyway, winding was hard like your cameras.
Best,
Jed |
| kktra080 |
Posted - Feb 06 2015 : 1:54:43 PM
Hello everyone,
my first post in the forum, I hope the topic is still alive. Today I have received my two Drug cameras from a repairshop. Now I can wind and cock the shutter, but the winding is somewhat coarse and crude. Is it supposed to be that hard or should it be smooth?
The repairman said he tested it with a dummy film and it is even harder to wind. May I add, before the repair they were impossible to wind....
Regards, Marko |
| Pravda |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 6:05:06 PM
Thanks for the pics Luiz, that is most helpful. I have got my first roll back and I quite liked it, but I have found cocking the shutter and keeping the camera relatively in frame to be somewhat ackward as I have a tendancy to want to cock with my right hand. This way seems to work much better!
Thanks again
He who invented beer is a wise man indeed - Plato |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 23 2008 : 7:49:40 PM
Drug camera introduced several news used in other KMZ cameras.
The frame counter was further used in Zenit 4, 5 and 6 , also in Zorki 10 and 11. The rewind button in the first series of Zorki 10 and 11, The rangefinder in the Zorki 35M prototype.
Its leather case molds were used on Zenit 4 and 5 cases, and its shape influenced the FED 7 design. |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 23 2008 : 7:39:20 PM
Now we know that Juhani has Smena rules into small hands....
Salute Juahani!
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| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 23 2008 : 7:30:07 PM
Now we know that Juhani has Smena rules into small hands....
Salute Juahani!
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| cedricfan |
Posted - Jun 22 2008 : 02:12:02 AM
In finnish Drug is the absolutely most correct word. But if I am correct it depends on your language & pronounciation, there is not only one answer?
As a camera I have never gotten to like Drug as much as Leningrad or Zorki-3, it just doesn't fit into my hands.
Smena rules |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 11:15:57 PM
Above two pitures of how to handle correctly Drug cameras. |
| Luiz Paracampo |
Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 11:14:22 PM
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/drug handle.JPG
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/drug handle2.JPG
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| Pravda |
Posted - Jun 15 2008 : 08:07:06 AM
Thanks Vlad, that answers everything!
I actually bought one based on your deep praise for the model. I took it out for a spin today and I was a lot of fun. The left hand cocking trick will take some getting used to, but I am sure I will get the hang of it soon enough. I cant wait to get my roll back from the lab!
PS I prefer the transliteration drug because that is what Soviet cameras are for all of us here.
He who invented beer is a wise man indeed - Plato |
| Zoom |
Posted - Jun 15 2008 : 04:25:32 AM
In my humble opinion better to name it "Droug". |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:55:23 PM
On yes, and the lever does release the mechanism for rewind, sorry.. be careful though it's quite sharp and you have to keep holding it while you rewind (at least on my Drug) and it's so tough to turn, it almost always cuts my finger.
Vlad |
| Vlad |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:53:28 PM
Hi Juan,
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on acquiring a Drug! As many of the members know and are sick hearing about it from me, it's actually my favorite shooter in my whole collection along with Zenit E  .
No you can't double expose the film the mechanism will not let you. You do need to cock it first before you can set the speed otherwise I think it messes up the spring - don't know what it does if you don't I was always afraid to try ..
Honestly I've never read a manual so I'm not sure about the moving the speed from one to another... I know that the dial does not sink if you go to slow speeds.. maybe is that what you mean?
What's so rapid about the lever on the bottom? You can keep cocking the camera with your left hand continuously while never taking off the finger from the shutter release with your right. I've seen my friend do it very very fast, I don't know how good it is for the chain in the camera that this lever is connected to, since I heard it develops problems with age, but it's possible to do and I've seen it..
Vlad |
| Pravda |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:36:45 PM
wait answered my own question...that lever frees the film advance, right?
If I keep it up and cock again can I do a double exposure then?
sorry for the newbie questions, but I hope you can help.
He who invented beer is a wise man indeed - Plato |
