| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
 Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 05:41:59 AM
|
Hello friends,
I have decided to show courage  in introducing the initial Classificator for beloved Fed-1 camera. Although some information is still missing, it's enough material to start our discussions. I would like your assistance in classifying the earliest (type-A) version of FED. Two more known for me changes: small "tongue" on the accessory shoe and small/big bolt on the bottom plate should be taken under our consideration either.Your comments, knowledge and criticizm would be very appreciated! Have a fun!
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-149094172
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 1:06:46 PM
|
about first fed : I had in my hands 2 different : hight and low shape size for the top (mentionned in Princelle's)
this on your site is HIght model ( I can show you - and send picture-mine which is low profile) |
 |
|
BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 1:17:30 PM
|
Alain, the medal says:
"Great performer of Communist Party and Soviet country 1877-1977 F.E. Dzerzhinkskiy". The flip side is partially obstructed but it may say "Dzerzhinovo", maybe a name of a village?
Vlad |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 1:21:44 PM
|
Aidas, great classficator! I have not really read it in details, but one thing stood out - have you considered those smooth vinyl covered FEDs as part of it? Remember the ones Alain posted from Bievres'08?
Also have you referred (you may have, sorry I have not paid attention in detail) to the Asquini/Pegorari book when creating this? They have a VERY detailed classificator for these in there with their own classifications.
Thanks for all this work!
Vlad.
|
|
|
Paul Sokk
Paul Sokk
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 10:00:50 PM
|
Aidas,
As with your Fed-2 Classificator, another very useful and outstanding effort! By the way, I'm still stewing about your lack of interest in the 2L but I will come back to that another day.....
Sorry, can't help with the earlier ones but I might be able to offer a few minor points of interest with the later ones.
From my database: In the transition from your Type-F3 to F4, the last of the F3s I have seen is 294555 (actually a photo of the top plate only and I can't find it at the moment).
The first 1g variation is the change from the wide silver rim (all previous types) on the rear viewfinder bezels to the narrow rim (or if you like, the wide black bit). The earliest examples are 455849 and 464323.
The only anniversary models I have found seem to be in 4656xx (two examples) and 4684xx (four examples including yours) ranges. These revert to the wide silver bezels as does 466708 (one of mine) which sits in between but is not an anniversary. The first body in my database after the last anniversary again has the narrow bezel.
Agree the earliest Type-G2 is 510636 but for info, the last Type-G1 I have in my database is 511970 - obviously another transitional period.
Most significantly, the shutter crate assembly changed between 547624 and 641973 from the traditional Fed stepped spring, big split nut and separate retaining lip to a very Zorki-1c looking flat spring, slot headed screw/nut and integral retaining lip. The two adjustment nuts remained the traditional two sided Fed nuts rather than the Zorki 4 sided ones. Personally, I have not seen this mentioned before (however my memory is not fantastic) but I think it is one of the more important and interesting mechanical changes during this period. Other examples with clear photos are 643759, 662769 and 666519 (all from eBay - unfortunately, there are not many photos of the innards). I have not been able to find any contradictions. If there was only one or maybe two examples, fedzorkinstein would come to mind but this seems consistent.
The last 1g in my database is 712834.
I understand that your classification interest is the body not the lens but just as an aside: The last 1f body with an uncoated lens with the old f/ stops and m/m marking is 321171 (1951). I know that lenses get changed all the time but bodies 274224 back have consistently the older type of lens fitted. Bodies fitted with lenses with serial numbers marked on the front face of the flange started appearing consistently from 547624 although there are earlier ones. No 466708 (mine) has lens 010810 but that looks a little high to be original.
Personally, I would have identified the anniversary model as a 1g variant rather than separately as it sits in the middle of the 1g serial number range and is only different and interesting (and costs 10x more) becasue of its engraving, but hey, its your classificator and your call (and I don't have one  ).
Cheers,
Paul
|
|
|
Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 1:46:05 PM
|
Hello Aidas,
very good site, thanks for the work. If you find an early FED 1a please let me know, I am missing one :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 06:06:21 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Aidas, great classficator! I have not really read it in details, but one thing stood out - have you considered those smooth vinyl covered FEDs as part of it? Remember the ones Alain posted from Bievres'08?
Also have you referred (you may have, sorry I have not paid attention in detail) to the Asquini/Pegorari book when creating this? They have a VERY detailed classificator for these in there with their own classifications.
Thanks for all this work!
Vlad.
Hi Vlad!
thanks to Bill, I know Fed-1 classification on Asquini/Pegorari book. They did a great job, but some information is still incomplete in that book. I have used all possible sources to create more detailed classificator indeed ... My main task was to create a convenient classificator for myself, which would be easy for modification, when new and reliable information about conrete cameras will be available to me ... Hoping, that my classificator will be interesting for other FED lovers either.
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 06:08:50 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Sokk
Aidas,
As with your Fed-2 Classificator, another very useful and outstanding effort! By the way, I'm still stewing about your lack of interest in the 2L but I will come back to that another day.....
Sorry, can't help with the earlier ones but I might be able to offer a few minor points of interest with the later ones.
From my database: In the transition from your Type-F3 to F4, the last of the F3s I have seen is 294555 (actually a photo of the top plate only and I can't find it at the moment).
The first 1g variation is the change from the wide silver rim (all previous types) on the rear viewfinder bezels to the narrow rim (or if you like, the wide black bit). The earliest examples are 455849 and 464323.
The only anniversary models I have found seem to be in 4656xx (two examples) and 4684xx (four examples including yours) ranges. These revert to the wide silver bezels as does 466708 (one of mine) which sits in between but is not an anniversary. The first body in my database after the last anniversary again has the narrow bezel.
Agree the earliest Type-G2 is 510636 but for info, the last Type-G1 I have in my database is 511970 - obviously another transitional period.
Most significantly, the shutter crate assembly changed between 547624 and 641973 from the traditional Fed stepped spring, big split nut and separate retaining lip to a very Zorki-1c looking flat spring, slot headed screw/nut and integral retaining lip. The two adjustment nuts remained the traditional two sided Fed nuts rather than the Zorki 4 sided ones. Personally, I have not seen this mentioned before (however my memory is not fantastic) but I think it is one of the more important and interesting mechanical changes during this period. Other examples with clear photos are 643759, 662769 and 666519 (all from eBay - unfortunately, there are not many photos of the innards). I have not been able to find any contradictions. If there was only one or maybe two examples, fedzorkinstein would come to mind but this seems consistent.
The last 1g in my database is 712834.
I understand that your classification interest is the body not the lens but just as an aside: The last 1f body with an uncoated lens with the old f/ stops and m/m marking is 321171 (1951). I know that lenses get changed all the time but bodies 274224 back have consistently the older type of lens fitted. Bodies fitted with lenses with serial numbers marked on the front face of the flange started appearing consistently from 547624 although there are earlier ones. No 466708 (mine) has lens 010810 but that looks a little high to be original.
Personally, I would have identified the anniversary model as a 1g variant rather than separately as it sits in the middle of the 1g serial number range and is only different and interesting (and costs 10x more) becasue of its engraving, but hey, its your classificator and your call (and I don't have one ).
Cheers,
Paul
Hi Paul,
thanks for your comments! I will study your information very carefully to make some changes in my classificator soon.
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 06:12:23 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37
about first fed : I had in my hands 2 different : hight and low shape size for the top (mentionned in Princelle's)
this on your site is HIght model ( I can show you - and send picture-mine which is low profile)
Alain,
I would be very appreciated to get a picture of "low profile" FED from you. Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
Aidas
|
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 06:17:27 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by uwittehh
Hello Aidas,
very good site, thanks for the work. If you find an early FED 1a please let me know, I am missing one :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de
Ulrich,
during last 2 months I saw at least 2 type-a cameras for sale Our friend Jim was offering absolutely authentic one on eBay, another (with doubtful authentity for me) was sold in Germany for 450 euros
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 11:44:52 AM
|
Hi Ulrich,
There was on Molotok two weeks ago an old # 698 (n°514326365). In a poor but genuine condition, including the original lens. It was sold for 300USD. I was one of the bidders but I couldn't connect in the last minute...
Always on Molotok, there is the # 927 (n°531127591) which will be sold at a high price!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 12:37:11 PM
|
Jacques,
thanks for reminding these two cameras. In my opinion, you are lucky man not beeing a winner ...  This Molotok seller was very doubtfull with 0 feedback in total ...
Let me remind you, that another Fed-1a #927 was for sale on LeicaShop just few months ago ... If I remember correctly, Peter was asking 2200 euros for it. Now it comes for 3500 euros on Molotok ... Great deal, isn't it?
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 1:58:14 PM
|
Aidas, I know that Jim said something like that some month ago, but I have never seen any auction of him even if I watched his items. eBay alsways showed me that he did not has anything to sell...
Jacques, I visited the Molotok site some minutes ago. It's all in russian, I don't understand any word :-) And it was horrible slow...
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 2:38:51 PM
|
Ulrich, Jim had tons of stuff for sale you just had to go through ebay.co.uk ...
Run molotok through google translator.
Vlad. |
|
|
Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 2:50:54 PM
|
Vlad,
as I remember his eBay name was 1204_mcgee. Am I right? I see in his feedback that he has sold russian stuff. But when I log on to ebay.co.uk and want to see what he has listed ebay also shows me 0 items like on eBay germany... Can you verify that he has 0 items at the moment?
Thanks,
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 2:52:48 PM
|
yea he has nothing listed at this time.. he used to though... you had to go through UK site only to see it..
Vlad. |
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 3:32:45 PM
|
Hi Aidas!
Of course I didn't say that to buy the # 927 would be a great deal. I simply say it exists.
As for the # 698, I always regret not to have got it even if the seller is a 0. Can I? By the picture, it's a genuine one, and I can only say that.
But unless if one of us is the buyer, we will never know the truth.
Jacques.
PS This # 927 seems to have a triangular rangefinder sensor instead of a round cornered rectangular one like all the 1a and b up to c. 52xxx. Strange... |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Jan 19 2009 4:42:01 PM |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 01:41:57 AM
|
Hi Jacques,
This Molotok seller came from unknown Russian city. He had nothing to sell except of this super rarity. His answers about the particular FED #698 were very strange indeed ...
It's only my opinion, but I'm not discounting the possibility of swindle here ... That's because no one serious buyer have participated in this auction, though everyone knew about it. Just take a look at winning bidder's data - he was registered on 13th, Junuary 2009 just to participate in this lot. You should believe me, that not all the sellers in Molotok are honest persons indeed ...
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 04:03:37 AM
|
Of course, Aidas, I had seen all that, except for the discussion that I am unable to appreciate, even with the aid of a translator!
If this 1a exists, 300 USD is a bargain.
But if it's only for the picture...
BTW, does the seller explain why there is only one picture?
Amitiés. Jacques.
|
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 09:40:41 AM
|
Hi Aidas,
Some precisions about the 1d from my collection.
For the shutter box (alu or brass), I can precise the limits I had.
My # 119792 already has an aluminium shutter box, not my 104370. But the two ones are S-s and of course we don't know when their parts were exactly made or put together...
It seems to me I had observed brass boxes up to c. 125xxx on eBay for plain NKVDs, but it's difficult to be categorical.
Certainly we could confirm (or infirm) that with other owners of Feds.
I have alu shutter boxes always after for my 5 remaining 1d and e, but my Fed 1f # 232140 has a brass one, like the 221xxx I had. Probably old parts: we know that the factory had great difficulties to recover after WW2. My following # is the 250726 with alu box up to the end (#708667).
For the hole in the pressure plate: my # 133967 (a plain NKVD) has a hole, not the # 157694 (an S). No exception before or after.
If it can help...
Of course, the transitions can cover several thousands of numbers...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 12:41:56 AM
|
Hi Jacques,
thanks a lot! I will try to use your information in my databases asap
Have a good weekend!
Aidas |
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 07:53:50 AM
|
Hi Aidas,
Congratulations for your bold enterprise: a courage I didn't have!
Just a point about your B7 category: the picture probably doesn't show an original 1b:
- the release button is circled: I think they don't appear until 5xxxx, at the end of the 1b-s, but it can be discussed,
- the famous screw in the middle of the front should be half visible only,
- the bottom plate seems to be locked with a big 5mm bolt, not a 3mm one.
A detail compared to the work you did.
Merci!
Amitiés. Jacques.
|
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 02:18:51 AM
|
Hi Jacques,
I have already removed the mentioned type-B7 camera from my list. Due to big quantity of information, I have been concentrating my attention to fitting serial numbers of particular cameras, that's why faked camera #22038 was placed in my Classificator mistakenly ....
I really appreciate your valuable notices, thanks a lot!
I would be even more happy to get the samples of types I'm missing in my classificator from honoured members of our Forums! If speaking about the particular type-B7, the pictures of at least 2 cameras: #20251 (Jacques coll.) and #23537 (Ulrich coll.) would be very appreciated !
Best Regards,
Aidas
|
|
|
Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 03:50:43 AM
|
With pleasure, Aidas!
I can give you pictures of B7, D2, E3, after your classification.
Could you send me your mail code by private mail?
Amitiés. Jacques. |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 07:40:13 AM
|
Hi Jacques,
Thank you in advance! I have already sent my e-mail to you. If everyone could send me the pictures of theirs other interesting cameras, my e-mail is always open ... photo@e-idea.lt
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 08:57:58 AM
|
Aidas I have a 1b #16617, let me know if you need pictures.
Vlad
|
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:40:49 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
With pleasure, Aidas!
I can give you pictures of B7, D2, E3, after your classification.
Could you send me your mail code by private mail?
Amitiés. Jacques.
Hi Jacques,
Unfortunately my reply to you was not delivered somehow. Thank you very very much! I really appreciate your help!
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:42:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Aidas I have a 1b #16617, let me know if you need pictures.
Vlad
Hi Vlad,
sure, I'd like to have the pictures of your early Fed, thanks!
Best Regards,
Aidas |
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 9:46:37 PM
|
| Aidas, what does this mean in your classificator: "Type-B6. Camera identical to type-B5, but no more depression under shutter speeds knob. " What is depression under speeds knob? |
|
|
Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
|
|
Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
|
Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 08:54:27 AM
|
| Oh I see, thanks Aidas! I do not have anything older than 16xxx so I never seen that, I appreciate the explanation! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Fed-1 Classificator
