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Fred_L
France
226 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 07 2015 : 2:16:11 PM
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Hi Fred!
It seems you have bought all the fair!
Your Fed s/n 140716 is interesting with a 2/50mm Fed lens.
The s/n 4184 is of course one of these curious Fed with a 1a s/n and a 1b body. Yours belongs to the last 1b series, with the special vulcanite (which we can see too on the early 1c). A very rare item.
The s/n 201578 is a fake Red Flag. Good serial number, but some errors in the engravings. The lens and the vulcanite are not correct. But it is an interesting camera. I just hope you don't pay it too much for it.
My last comments to morrow. But wow and congrats for the 0.95 Canon!! I do hope you will try it and tell me more about it!!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2015 : 2:41:18 PM
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Fred,
I know it's a bit OT here.
But I have a 1,1/50mm Sonnetar in M mount. It would be interesting to make comparisons with your 0,95 Canon ...
Jacques. |
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Fred_L
France
226 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2015 : 2:50:13 PM
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Thank you Jacques
About Red Flag, I have shown it to Princelle
He said it should be an original one, but who knows?
What are the signs that makes it is a fake, please?
For the price, no problem, I have bought it with the 4186 to same guy at good price..
Fred |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2015 : 4:47:21 PM
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| Thanks Fred for all these photos. I see you found some special ones. I like the Caika and the Canon is a monster. That makes much work later when buying 9 cameras at one time. Sad if some sellers offer fakes there. Great you met Princelle, that would have been the highlight for me. Hope you had a good time. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2015 : 5:36:07 PM
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Hi Fred,
nice cameras, congratulation! I hope they make you happy.
The only trouble is a FED-NKAP. This camera seems to be a fake. Here are some signs you can check:
1) as Jacques already noted, the vulcanite is wrong. These cameras have very special vulcanite and due to this vulcanite they are almost impossible to be confused. You must always think about it, if you take any FED-NKAP in your hand. We have already discussed it in this thread: http://ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2829
2) the next one is the engraving on the top plate. I show you mine and you can compare them:
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/762015__MG_7029.JPG
Regards, Alexander |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 12:18:58 AM
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Hi all,
I was pleased to meet Fred  We missed Francesco as we didn't have a phone number...
As a Kiev-Contax friend I bought this, three non working bodies plus a Jupiter 12
Congrats your kiev '48' is genuine to me 
 |
Edited by - jed on Jun 08 2015 12:19:27 AM |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 01:15:57 AM
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Wow, very nice cameras indeed!
I would love to know what is the real price level of such wonders in Bievres, but I am afraid that Fred will not share that information with us.
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 03:30:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
I would love to know what is the real price level of such wonders in Bievres
Fred's Zorki-1 #40016 I never saw offered before. It seems there are sellers who don't use online auctions for sale and you can find unknown samples in Bievres. That's much more interesting to me if you are looking for special models like a Smena-5 or early Kievs which are kind of rare. Good if you are living close to Paris. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 03:54:43 AM
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Hi Fred!
Your 1948 Kiev is an original mix (I think) of Dresden and Jena parts, Dresden for the arrow, Jena for the rangefinder wheel. It seems too that the "3" under the lens has a flat top, so, a Dresden part. Very interesting camera which should help us to discuss!
As for the "Red Flag", I think it's a fake, unhappily. Alexander's one is true (for me) and mine too, probably, even if there is a line of engravings which misses. On yours, the letters are really different... I don't insist on the vulcanite.
Of course, one never exactly knows with these very special series: there can be variations. But it's difficult to imagine variations in the design of the letters.
JL Princelle had a great merit: to write his famous book. Thanks to him, the FSU cameras were thrown up. But I sent him a letter two years ago about a question of number Fed 2/5cm lens vs. Fed S camera. No answer... I am not sure he is always really interested by our hobby, alas...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Pierre Tizien
Moxies
France
183 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 04:18:05 AM
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I went there, found nothing. For those who don't collect zorki or FED, there isn't anything really interesting.
There was only a russian seller selling OKS or Lenkinap lenses at insane price...
Also talked a bit with JL Princelle  .
As Jacques told, I think Princelle is not really interested anymore in FSU cameras and lenses. |
Edited by - Moxies on Jun 08 2015 04:22:41 AM |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 05:12:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Moxies
Also talked a bit with JL Princelle .
As Jacques told, I think Princelle is not really interested anymore in FSU cameras and lenses.
That's understandable. Princelle's book "300 Leica copies" is from 1990, his russian camera book is from when, maybe 2002. It's hard to keep a hobby for more than 25 years when you only have one life. And now with all the online auctions the availability of information is just too much to keep track. And also, now it's much more difficult to get rare things than 10 years ago. But still great that he visited Bievres. Good if you had a chance to talk with him. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 06:55:53 AM
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I don't understand how it is possible to speak of somebody when you have never seen him or discussed with him...
Back to the (main) topic, and specially the Kiev II.
It seems that the lens was wiped from the black paint. Not the first time I see that. Certainly, it's not an unfinished lens, as the s/n shows it is inside the series (=not at the limits).
About the body, it would be fine if you could examine closely the disc under the selftimer: are they rests of black paint (= Jena part) or of chrome (= Dresden parts), Fred?
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Sandor Szilagyi
Messsucher
Hungary
34 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 08:22:11 AM
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Hi there! Long time not here...
Imho there are two worrisome things:
- the chrome is finer then the surronding
- the edges of the top plate is not rounded (anymore), looks like after filing...
Cheers!
But I may be wrong! |
Edited by - Messsucher on Jun 08 2015 08:26:06 AM |
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Fred_L
France
226 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 1:58:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
I don't understand how it is possible to speak of somebody when you have never seen him or discussed with him...
Back to the (main) topic, and specially the Kiev II.
It seems that the lens was wiped from the black paint. Not the first time I see that. Certainly, it's not an unfinished lens, as the s/n shows it is inside the series (=not at the limits).
About the body, it would be fine if you could examine closely the disc under the selftimer: are they rests of black paint (= Jena part) or of chrome (= Dresden parts), Fred?
Amitiés. Jacques.
Thank you Jacques
I think the disc under selftimer has never been chromed.
It has black paint traces, but impossible to say if they were made later or not. Camera had grey painting on top when I bought it......
About Red Flag fake, I will disassemble it to see what's inside!!!
Have nice evening
Fred |
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Fred_L
France
226 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 2:04:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
Wow, very nice cameras indeed!
I would love to know what is the real price level of such wonders in Bievres, but I am afraid that Fred will not share that information with us.
Best regards,
Juhani
Hi Juhani
I bought the fake Red Flag and #4186 for 300 euros. The Fed with 2/50mm for 70 euros. The Zorki 1 for 60 euros. and the Kiev for 200 euros. Canon 7 with 0.95, much more expensive...
Fred |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 2:20:13 PM
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Hi
Both cameras are fake. NKAP already discussed. 4184 middle windows is square and accessory shoe there . It is much older camera. Also first camera combined together regular FED with fast lens. FED should be with shutter speed 1/1000.
JL Princelle, as he told me, not collector. He is writer.
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Edited by - ilyast on Jun 08 2015 2:30:08 PM |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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SteveA
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 2:29:38 PM
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Hi, re. your Kiev. I have 481100 in my collection - comparing the details with Minouru Sasaki's photos in 'Contax to KNEB'..
The focussing wheel is a hybrid in that it has the circular grooving on the face, but no slot in the milled edge. 481244 is like this.
The accessory shoe has quite rounded edges, again like 481244 - most likely a Dresden Contax part. I can't see the focus mount clearly but if the 1,3 meter mark has a flat top 3 and separated from the 1 by a comma then it is a Dresden part. The lens serial number looks about right - 481739 has No 002923
Looks like it is worth of a good clean and restoration as it is quite a rarity.
Cheers,
Steve |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 2:29:47 PM
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| Thanks Fred. I think the Fed with 50/2 was cheap, 70 euro is the price for the lens alone. The Zorki-1 not cheap but also not expensive, it depends on the condition. It's great if you are looking for things which are hard to find. |
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
837 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 2:50:10 PM
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Nice finds! Especially the Kiev, even if it looks very hard used. But as Steve says, a nice cleaning and carefully restauration and you have a fine piece for collection.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 3:57:06 PM
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Great to see such active discussion and long time members! Some nice finds Fred! Ilya, haha! Nice picture of Jean Loup! I hope you passed on my regards.
Cheers,
Vlad. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 4:18:22 PM
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Ha, ha! JLP as a piper with a "Compare our prices" behind! Thanks Ilyast!
Concerning the Fed s/n 4184, Fred's is not a fake. Two possibilities: a replacement of a non working 1a by a 1b by the factory (under warranty), with the same s/n. We have some in the wiki. Or a mistake in the numbering: not impossible too. We have already discussed that matter.
Fred, all your purchases are bargains! The 1948 Kiev is particularly interesting, with these mix Dresden/Jena parts. Just don't restore it too much. But you do what you want, of course!
Tell me please when you have photos with your 0.95 Canon lens!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 5:06:58 PM
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| Mistakes in numbers are very common. It is make sense. But any way it is not early version. |
Edited by - ilyast on Jun 08 2015 5:08:19 PM |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 7:09:15 PM
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Wow Ilya! Are these from Bievres? And what camera is that on the right??
Vlad |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 11:26:43 PM
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No. I can't find anything there. I just purchased there 3 old films, actually from JLP. But it is from the same trip. Trip was really productive. I find about 5-7 very rare cameras.
Second camera is Record 1. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2015 : 11:28:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ilyast
No. I can't find anything there. I just purchased there 3 old films, actually from JLP. But they are from the same trip. Trip was really productive. I find about 5-7 very rare cameras.
Second camera is Record 1.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 12:48:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred_L
quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
Wow, very nice cameras indeed!
I would love to know what is the real price level of such wonders in Bievres, but I am afraid that Fred will not share that information with us.
Best regards,
Juhani
Hi Juhani
I bought the fake Red Flag and #4186 for 300 euros. The Fed with 2/50mm for 70 euros. The Zorki 1 for 60 euros. and the Kiev for 200 euros. Canon 7 with 0.95, much more expensive...
Fred
Thank you, not that bad.
And my favourite is the Kiev 
Best regards,
Juhani |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 03:22:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ilyast
Mistakes in numbers are very common. It is make sense. But any way it is not early version.
Yes, Ilya. With such a vulcanite and a flat on the shutter button, it must be a last 1b. I have the same in the s/n 48xxx. And too the s/n 4580 with the same vulcanite.
If I remember, another hypothesis was a special engraving for a ministry or other....
OK with Juhani: I find too the Kiev is the most exciting!
Jacques.
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 04:09:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan
And my favourite is the Kiev
I think very special is the Record because it's not mentioned on fotoua and sovietcams, but found it in the wiki here.
http://ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=12&ParentID=1&ContentID=1301&Item=Record
Maybe we could add some photos.
This small box camera has 6 plates 4,5x6 cm which are changeable in a magazine. |
Edited by - Lenny on Jun 09 2015 1:31:54 PM |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 1:29:36 PM
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Thanks Ilya,
the last link has also an inside picture, but maybe there is something missing. Hope your Record is complete. Would also be interesting to know how high and wide the box is because it looks really small. Is it made of wood or bakelite? |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 3:36:18 PM
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| It is made from wood. and not big. I can make better pictures and measure it later this month when I'll be back to US. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 09 2015 : 7:37:31 PM
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Ilya, amazing finds! Congratulations! I'm coming over to take some pictures of these wonders when you're back here in Chicago
Cheers,
Vlad. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 01:55:41 AM
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Thanks for the photos Ilya,
a Leica without shoe? It must have been a Model-A before from 1928.
Fed-KMZ #00070 was in Aidas' hands before, I wonder how many owners this camera already had. Interesting that it has a leather case, never saw it before.
Fed-Zorki #00691, is it original, looks strange to me.
Fed-Zorki #04862, one of the last with 1/1000.
Many leather cases, was something inside or written on them. Please put a note inside so that the comibination with the camera won't get lost, or make photos to keep the combination.
Hope they all work.
Thanks Lenny |
Edited by - Lenny on Jun 11 2015 02:12:26 AM |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 02:17:52 AM
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Leica it is FED made for spy's
Yes you right for Aidas camera. It is the same. I assume everything real here. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 03:44:23 AM
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There was no Leica without shoe, Lenny. Even the Leica 0. This Leica/Fed seems made with a Fed cover from the s/n c. 9000/10000, by the shape of the finder. With such a number, it should have a shoe.
We already have the Fed 1a s/n 05890 in our wiki with Juhani as owner.
Jacques. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 03:56:56 AM
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Well, I guess it's mine now.
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Edited by - ilyast on Jun 11 2015 03:57:32 AM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 04:18:19 AM
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Hi Ilya,
Just try to understand.
You show here some very rare cameras. It's normal we try to find if we have a trace of them.
Anyway, it would be very kind if you could put other photos of your cameras...
I don't understand why you say that your Leica/Fed is "for spy"? There is no Leica without shoe...
Thanks for all these rarities! Jacques. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 04:25:44 AM
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Hi Jacques. I absolutely ok with that. I'm not offended. I will make better pictures when I'll be back to home. I still in France. Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
Also I have much more rare cameras . I'll post pictures of them later. |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 04:32:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
There was no Leica without shoe, Lenny. Even the Leica 0. This Leica/Fed seems made with a Fed cover from the s/n c. 9000/10000, by the shape of the finder.
I thought of that Jacques and the logo looks little bit strange, but obviously with those 3 holes this cam had a special addition. |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 04:52:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ilyast
Hi Jacques. I absolutely ok with that. I'm not offended. I will make better pictures when I'll be back to home. I still in France. Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
Also I have much more rare cameras . I'll post pictures of them later.
Ilya, I didn't intend to offend you, sorry if it sounded like that. You are one of the famous Fed-KMZ collectors now. I wonder who the other is of #00063, it was Alain Berry before. I think to know about the previous owners is part of their special history. Maybe Aidas can tell you where and when he got it from.
What I would do:
Check how much tension is on the curtains, it can be felt, the small screw inside the two-sided nuts. I would lower the tension if it's too much.
I would always keep the shutter cocked, it would rest the opening curtain and the closing curtain would be rolled on the much bigger drum which is much better for the curtain.
Thanks again
Lenny |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 05:08:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ilyast
Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
That's interesting and totally comprehensible. Fed faked their own Feds to become Leicas. Very special then. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 05:12:57 AM
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| Thanks. At some point this Leica FEd belong to JLP |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 07:40:25 AM
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| Congratulations also to Aidas, he must be rich now. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 08:54:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny
quote:
Originally posted by ilyast
Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
That's interesting and totally comprehensible. Fed faked their own Feds to become Leicas. Very special then.
No Lenny. I don't think it is so simple. Not sure that the engraving was made at the factory. And there are errors in the text. And if it was really a fake for spy, there would be a a shoe, as on any Leica. the factory would not have made such flagrant mistakes.
But I will wait for a special thread to discuss all that when Ilya is at home! I have some Leica Feds too to compare with this one!
Jacques. |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 09:32:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
I don't think it is so simple. Not sure that the engraving was made at the factory. And there are errors in the text. And if it was really a fake for spy, there would be a a shoe, as on any Leica. the factory would not have made such flagrant mistakes.
Jacques, it must have been before the war, right. I'm not sure if people at that time knew about all the variants of Leicas. Maybe not for spys used to operate in Germany because the Gestapo could easily ask Leica. But good enough for spys in all other countries. Maybe these fakes were not intended to keep hidden, but the FED logo would easily be recognized as russian. So these fakes must not be very good copies, only we recognize strange things now.
Made from an early Fed this copy has it's worth, would be interesting to know more about it's history and where Princelle got it from. |
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Ilya Stolyar
ilyast
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 11:55:28 AM
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| I get this particular camera not from Aidas. Sorry this camera not make him rich. |
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G.Franco Giordano
Francesco
Italy
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 2:51:18 PM
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| The fake FEDs/Leica were made only for a problem of patents.The were some people in USSR,(diplomats, journalists, traders)that for their job outside the USSR needed a camera.The soviets had FEDs, but they were a Leica copy, and not only the camera, but every single part of it was covered by a german patent.So those fake Leicas were made to avoid any problem with Germany, which was a very important commercial partner for USSR. German authorities knew very well what the soviets did, but they pretended know nothing because USSR was a closed market; anyway they couldn't sell their cameras in USSR. After the war there were many Leica copies from over the world because in the peace treaty was stated that every german patent existing before the war was not more valid. And USSR began to sell the Zorki abroad. Greetings Francesco |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 4:27:33 PM
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Hi Francesco, have you been to Bievres?
I thought before the war the Leica patents were not valid in Russia. I read that maybe in Princelle's books or in the Leica wikipedia. Germany had good connections with Russia, they shared technology. The german company Goerz which later became a part of Zeiss had a factory in Leningrad (St.Petersburg) from 1905 on. Luiz told us some time ago that the KMZ logo originated from the Goerz logo. If Leica didn't have patents in Russia sure Fed was allowed to built copies before the war and why shouldn't Russians use Feds in Germany then. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 03:41:13 AM
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Yes, the historical background is very important, I think.
The treaty of Rapallo (1922) established a cooperation between Germany and the Soviet Union. If not, the decision of "making Leicas" in the Commune would not have been followed so fast by the real production of Feds.
Makarenko even relates in his memories that a German delegation had met a Fed one. And the Germans had left the new Leica (probably the III(F) or the III(G))on a table... which was dismounted and remounted by the Communards.
The different Leica cameras were well known by Fed. So, there should not be mistakes in a Leica fake made by Fed... The "general" opinion is that these fakes were made for money. Of course, that does not exclude a fake made illegally by a Communard...
I had already been astonished by this camera, years ago, when discovering it in the JLP. I am really happy to know more about it. Thanks, Ilya! And eager you are back home!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
Edited by - Jacques M. on Jun 12 2015 03:44:50 AM |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 4:17:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny
Luiz told us some time ago that the KMZ logo originated from the Goerz logo.
At different times, C.P. Goerz with its affiliates used two logos (but just writing the name "C.P. Goerz" was the most preferred practice). The first one (triangle-like) became the NPZ logo, now in: Novosibirsk, it is the former "Zavod tochnoy mekhaniki" (Krasnogorsk). And the later logo (Dove prism) became the KMZ logo.
Some information of this history is there (in Russian):
http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-logos.html
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/marks.html
A separate page about a mysterious logos history (Goerz-NPZ-KMZ) is not ready yet. I still can not find the time to finish this work... :(
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Edited by - Zoom on Jun 12 2015 5:13:55 PM |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 8:08:24 PM
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very interesting history of logos idea
we wait for that
Regards
LP |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2015 : 12:26:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo
very interesting history of logos idea
we wait for that
It could be said that Zeiss and KMZ are far relatives because of Goertz. Goertz produced mostly optical goods for the military and after World War One, which Germany lost, they were not allowed to build military goods anymore because of the peace treaty. Joining Zeiss saved the company. I assume the factory in Leningrad was lost, Russia won World War One and the Goertz factory might have become a Soviet company then. The machinery, tools and skilled workers must have been still there and a good start for something new. That KMZ chose the old Goertz logo shows how important the factory in Leningrad was in the Russian history.
Will be very interesting what Zoom can tell us about this logo. |
Edited by - Lenny on Jun 13 2015 01:00:03 AM |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2015 : 06:20:24 AM
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Hi Fred,
just to let you know, there was a Canon 50/0.95 lens sold at westlicht auction for 2200 euro. |
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Fred_L
France
226 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2015 : 2:39:18 PM
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Hi Lenny!
Thank you for the information
I bought mine 1450 euros for body and lens in Bièvres.
It has taken me half a day to négociate with seller from Denmark.
He wanted 1990 at beginning...
Fred |
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Lenny
496 Posts |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2015 : 3:46:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny
... Russia won World War One ...
You are mistaken. Russia did not won that war. The WWI for Russia ended with the two Revolutions, the collapse of a state, a civil war, an intervention in 1918--1921 (which was attended: by the Germany (up to the end 1919), USA, GB with dominions: Australia, Canada..., and France, Italy, Poland, Greece, Romania, and Japan), etc. After that the country has been in a full blockade... |
Edited by - Zoom on Jun 16 2015 03:10:06 AM |
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G.Franco Giordano
Francesco
Italy
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 03:16:45 AM
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| The aim of wester intervention in 1919-1921 was to cut from Russia the baltic, the easter europe and the caucasus; this to avoid that Russia could became a threaten to the new european states and to the middle east oil. Strangely this is exactly what they did in 1991.Sorry for the digression.Francesco |
Edited by - Francesco on Jun 15 2015 03:23:50 AM |
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