Is this Industar 10 OK ?

We still talk about body of FED NKVD.
Now there will be about lenses - Industars 10.

I have found a lens which seems strange to me. Some details suggest it is very early lens fo FED NKVD till # 10 000 but number of the lens tells it is much later lens sold with camera about # 60 000.
Am I right ? Or maybe everything is OK ?

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe1.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe1.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe2.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe2.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe3.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe3.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe4.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe4.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe5.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe5.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_fe6.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_fe6.jpg

Yes, Alfa, you are right.

-The internal barrel denotes a very early Fed 10: it has four slots for dismounting, instead of only two after.
-The milling is very fine on the early lenses. It's more coarse after. It's the case here.
-The infinity button has been changed: this one has a "mushroom" shape, instead of the cylindric shape on Fed 1.
-The diaphragm scale is normal for a non coated pre 1950 Industar 10.
-The serial number is curious. The lettering is bigger than what we generally find on Fed 1. But we are far from knowing all about these Industar 10...

A lens made from parts?

Jacques.

Hello all,

I have a similar lens #58946, but with some differences.

- The number is stamped in a different place.
- Only two slots in the internal barrel.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_58946a.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_58946a.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_58946b.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_58946b.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_58946c.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_58946c.JPG





There is a similar "mushroom" infinity button on my F2 #180

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_IMG_180.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_IMG_180.jpg



Cheers
Geoff

Curious.

I have just checked my Fed 1: none of my 2/50mm Fed lens has this "mushroom" infinity button. They all have a "normal" one, like on all my 3,5/50mm.

Perhaps a special series of lenses? Or mix with Industar 22 parts? And this button is not far from the Elmar's or Summar's...

Thank you Jacques for your description. Below you can find my answers.

<i>-The internal barrel denotes a very early Fed 10: it has four slots for dismounting, instead of only two after.</i>
Yes, this attribute is the first I look at.

<i>-The milling is very fine on the early lenses. It's more coarse after. It's the case here.
</i>Yes, the milling is coarse so it does not match to previous point.

<i>-The infinity button has been changed: this one has a "mushroom" shape, instead of the cylindric shape on Fed 1.</i>
I don't remember how infinity button should be in early FED lenses.

<i>-The diaphragm scale is normal for a non coated pre 1950 Industar 10.</i>
Yes, but we want to judge if the lens is for FED #5000 or #60 000. So the scale is OK for both.

<i>-The serial number is curious. The lettering is bigger than what we generally find on Fed 1. But we are far from knowing all about these Industar 10... </i>
I think sometimes the number was bigger sometimes smaller.


<i>A lens made from parts?</i>
Probably, but it is done very good. So wanted to ask you. [:)]

Jacques,

There is a 50/2 with a "mushroom" button in the book "LEICA COPIES" by HPR, included in a set of Pre-war FEDs on page 309.

And I agree, curious.

Geoff

But Industar 10 #58496 owned by Geoff seems to be OK.

I have checked my 71 Fed 1 [;)], at least their lenses, and all have the cylindric shape button, including the earliest ones.
That does not mean that another "classic" shape does not exist, of course... And the "mushroom" shape can be found on Elmars, Summars, LTM 2/5cm Sonnars, Serenars, Industar 22 and probably many others.

In fact, I wonder if the external parts of the Industar 10 were not made by different workshops. That could explain some variations.

Jacques.

Jacques

I have no other 50/3.5 lenses in the 55xxx - 69xxx range to compare.
Do you have any in this range to compare, in your flock [:I]

Here is another one I found in my records. FED No53882 + 50/3.5 60533 with "mushroom" button

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/3102016_163-fed0.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3102016_163-fed0.jpg

There is a pattern emerging.

Cheers
Geoff

Ha ha! I have mine too! I had not seen it...

The 58982 on the 1b 54223: it has a mushroom button and big ciphers.
My 1c 57513 has a bad lens (s/n 11xxxx). My other ones in this range are Fed Ss.

So, you are right: we have a variant here.
A possible explanation: it was a difficult period for Fed. They had to make the first 1c S (in the 55xxx)and to prepare the different accessories and extra lenses. All that at the same time (early 1938). So, they could have asked an extra workshop (inside the factory or outside) to complete some Industar 10, with a foreseen batch of numbers.

So, we have the s/n 58946, 58982, 60533 and 60622. It would be interesting to complete the listing if possible.

As for the barrel in your lens, Alfa, it's probably an old one put into a new mount in 1938... Thanks for the novelty!

Amitiés. Jacques.

Certainly, this "detail" is interesting.
Here is now my Industar 10 s/n 61996, which is a "cross over"![:D]
Intermediate button, and always big ciphers.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/4102016_DSCF2538.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/4102016_DSCF2538.JPG

This lens could be not far from the end of the variant: from 58xxx to 61xxx, for the moment.
Geoff, what is the s/n of your 2/50 lens? 180??

Amitiés. Jacques.

Jacques

This latest 61996 seems another variant, as the tube looks shorter in length and the knurling seems wider than the other lenses.


Yes, my 50/2 has number 180.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/4102016_592013_2-50 crop.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/4102016_592013_2-50 crop.jpg



Cheers
Geoff

From my records, here is another FED No53713 with a "mushroom" infinity button, but I do not have the lens serial number. [:(]

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/4102016_53713-002.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/4102016_53713-002.jpg


Cheers
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

The 2/50mm Fed lenses are numbered from 20xxx to 33xxx, under the infinity position. There is often (always?) another number whose meaning is not clear: it certainly concerns the production line or the control.
It's this number you have. It seems your lens is not regularly numbered. It happens from time to time. But why?...

I see that your lens is already in the wiki. http://ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.aspContentID=1025&ParentID=2&WikiCatID=87
Probably we already discussed about it.

Amitiés. Jacques.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jacques M.</i>
As for the barrel in your lens, Alfa, it's probably an old one put into a new mount in 1938... Thanks for the novelty!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Welcome [:)] and thank you for solving mystery of my lens. You're right it's old barrel put into newer frame.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jacques M.</i>
So, they could have asked an extra workshop (inside the factory or outside) to complete some Industar 10, with a foreseen batch of numbers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In the article from SF there is interesting information about production. Everything was done within FED factory. So it would be rather extra workshop inside factory. But it could be different shape of the button for some other reason as well.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jacques M.</i>
<br />
Certainly, this "detail" is interesting.
Here is now my Industar 10 s/n 61996, which is a "cross over"![:D]
Intermediate button, and always big ciphers.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/4102016_DSCF2538.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/4102016_DSCF2538.JPG

This lens could be not far from the end of the variant: from 58xxx to 61xxx, for the moment.

Amitiés. Jacques.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Jacques

I have another "crossover" s/n 61875, looks similar to yours above. Big numbers and additional number 100 also stamped on tab on body.

Cheers
Geoff

61875

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/10122016_1.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/10122016_1.jpg