Leningrad zavod ?

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Topic author: mermoz37

Posted on: 20080312064911

which one , please can translate and inform about that camera ?
thanks in advance [:)]
alain

Replies

Reply author: Zoom

Replied on: 20080312084937

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mermoz37
 please can translate and inform about that camera ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ØÒÀÒÈÂÍÀß: adjective from ØÒÀÒÈÂ: stand, tripod...
ÄÅÐÅÂßÍÍÀß: wooden
ÔÎÒÎÊÀÌÅÐÀ: photo-camera

Reply author: Vlad

Replied on: 20080312102145

Very interesting, a shutter seems to be made for military use....

Reply author: Zoom

Replied on: 20080312110102

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Vlad
 Very interesting, a shutter seems to be made for military use....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Why military?...
Thornton-Pickard type curtain shutter...

From one old book "Spravochnaya kniga optiko-mekhanika" (The optic-mechanic's reference book) [ONTI, 1938, vol. 1], page 331 (I think that it is the same camera, and sorry -- without translation):

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Äåðåâÿííàÿ ôîòîêàìåðà äîðîæíîãî òèïà äîâîëüíî âûñîêîãî êà÷åñòâà èçãîòîâëÿåòñÿ íåáîëüøèìè ñåðèÿìè íà çàâîäå ÃÎÌÇ. Ìàòåðèàë -- îðåõîâîå äåðåâî. Ðàñòÿæåíèå ìåõà -- îêîëî 45 ñì. Ãîðèçîíòàëüíûå è âåðòèêàëüíûå óêëîíû çàäíåé ðàìû. Äâîéíûå äåðåâÿííûå êàññåòû. Âíåøíåå îôîðìëåíèå õîðîøåå.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Reply author: Vlad

Replied on: 20080312111016

Zoom,

shutters usually were not sold with these wooden camera kits (â êîìïëåêòå) as far as I know (I may be wrong), so it was probably packaged later with the camera or added on separately at the time of purchase.. hammer and sickle (ñåðï è ìîëîò) usually is a Soviet Army symbol, that is why I said it was either manufactured for Army use or manufactured on factory that produced Army mechanics...

The book you quoted mentions nothing of packaged shutter...
Vlad

Reply author: Zoom

Replied on: 20080312111722

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Vlad
 shutters usually were not sold with these wooden camera kits (â êîìïëåêòå) as far as I know (I may be wrong)...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It the West, not in the USSR... ;)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Vlad
 hammer and sickle (ñåðï è ìîëîò) usually is a Soviet Army symbol, that is why I said it was either manufactured for Army use or manufactured on factory that produced Army mechanics...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This shutter was made by GOMZ. I think that you are right about that this camera was manufactured for using in the Red Army (for documents, for example). But this is not a 'special' military shutter, as I understood your message... ;)

Reply author: Vlad

Replied on: 20080312113401

Oh no, that is what I meant - that it was made for using in the army since shutter was marked with "Army" symbol..

With all due respect, I'm still not convinced that shutter is original to the camera... I see a lot FK and FKDs for sale all the time and own a great complete set of FKD (Kharkov made though) and none of them come with shutters... they are all "ïòè÷êà âûëåòåò"(open/close cap by hand) cameras.. maybe GOMZ did package theirs with shutters, I know Kharkov's Minpribororgtekhnika (I think that's the name) did not, I guess further research needed... Does the book you mention says anything about shutter anywhere else?

Thanks Zoom
Vlad.

Reply author: Zoom

Replied on: 20080312124058

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Vlad
 ...I'm still not convinced that shutter is original to the camera...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You were marked on the Army-mark... Army is the distinctness and the order. An army camera must have a shutter. ;)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Vlad
 
Does the book you mention says anything about shutter anywhere else?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes. It characteristics and pictures...
But it is simple: Thornton-Pickard shutters were very common:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Thornton+Pickard+shutter

Reply author: nightphoto

Replied on: 20080312171108

I suspect that the shutter may have been included with the camera during wartime (maybe 1942-1945) by GOMZ, since the shutter on Alain's camera has not only the Soviet Army markings but also a GOMZ marking on it.

As Zoom has said, the Soviet Army would of course need shutters for their cameras for accurate exposures in military photography. So, I would guess (but I don't know for sure) that GOMZ may have copied exactly, and produced, a Thornton-Pickard shutter specifically for Soviet Army use.

The camera looks to be the standard FK 13x18 made by GOMZ at this time and probably the standard instruction manual, that Alain has, was included with the Soviet Army version which only differed from the normal version by the addition of the shutter.

The manual says "Leningrad" but shows a GOMZ logo on the back, so the camera is from GOMZ and not "Leningrad Zavod" and is called the Leningrad FK 13x18 to differentiate from other FK cameras made in Moscow or Kharkov.

Regards, Bill

Reply author: sovietcam

Replied on: 20080924163453

i have found in a military book (1956) over landscape photography (only army) this shutter and camera![:D]
when this shutter is a copy from a thornton-pickard shutter, then became the red army this shutter over lend-lease in ww2. it gives many confirmed reports for cameras over lend-lease, but no information over type and units of cameras.

shutter

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/013.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/014.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/015.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/015.JPG

camera

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/016.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/017.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/017.JPG

regards
mike

Reply author: Vlad

Replied on: 20080924204305

Mike! Great find!!

In regards to this thread it does provide indisputable evidence of the contents of the military use FK kit!

To just translate that section (the rest if technical descriptions of inner workings of shutter and rangefinder systems):

Contents of the camera kit:
Camera 13x18
Wooden tripod
Wooden cassettes
Curtain Shutter GOMZ
Industar-4 Lens
Light filters
Leather lens cap
Waterproof fabric case for tripod
Camera case

It also says this:

"With this camera you can do reproduction work for maps, forms, etc. Take images of artillery kill zones, samples of captured enemy weaponry (!?) and make photographs to be used in military reports. "

The rest as I said is technical stuff, nothing new..

So I stand corrected in regards to shutter not being part of the kit.

Mike, thanks again for this invaluable information!
Vlad

Reply author: sovietcam

Replied on: 20080925160628

to vlad:

wonderful to help.
question to the manual! i have many military manuels for cameras, airplanes... i have never see a logo or a factory name in this manuels and all manuals have a simple envelope. gives it military manuels with logo or factory name?
question to the fk: i have also a military fk, also without nameplate. gives fk with this plate?

to alain:

I would be interested, what has the industar-4 for a serialnumber? has the lens a military logo? and gives it numbers on glass elements?

regards
mike