Lowest serial number for "Zorki-Zorki"?

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Topic

Topic author: uwittehh

Posted on: 20080605134550

Hello,

what is the lowest serial number you have seen for the "Zorki-Zorki", the Zorki with both cyrillic and latin engraving on the top plate?
My earliest "Zorki-Zorki" has number 33201, so it must be built in 1950.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Replies

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080605135407

Hello Ulrich

In March 2008 I've seen a Zorki-Zorki with the number 28844 on eBay.

Best wishes - Guido

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080605140221

... or was it the number 24844? (May 2008 on eBay)

Reply author: mermoz37

Replied on: 20080605140430

i have one (for Vlad ? [^]) n° 232791
mines are : 121595 , 156287 and 55135989 !!!

Reply author: AidasCams

Replied on: 20080605140601

I can say for sure ... [:D] It was Zorki #24844 with rigid white I-22 lens.

Best Regards,
Aidas

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080605141330

Thank you Aidas ... ;->

Best wishes - Guido

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080605141845

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mermoz37
 i have one (for Vlad ? [^]) n° 232791
mines are : 121595 , 156287 and 55135989 !!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hello Alain

The highest number for a Zorki-Zorki I saw was 56003238 on eBay in October 2006.

By the way: Why the #232791 (1952 probably) is for Vlad?

Best wishes - Guido

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20080605152843

Guido,

on May this year? Why is it not mine? 8-) I havn't seen it...
The other one I have has serial 94695 and has a black faced rigid I-22.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20080605153140

Alain,

interesting, I've had one with number 121249, really close to the one that you have. Seems, that they have built them in batches?

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: nathandayton

Replied on: 20080605184925

Let me just throw out some food for thought.

Unless you have the passport, you do not know that the lens that is on the camera was on the camera when it left the factory! So you can not draw any conclusion other than "When I got the camera this was the lens that it had on it."

Model changes were made when the old parts ran out. They were not model year changes like we do it in the west.

I know that everyone is trying to make sense out of the system but it fits their model of production not ours!

Reply author: cedricfan

Replied on: 20080605232614

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mermoz37
 i have n° 156287 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And mine is 158915 so not far away from yours

Reply author: Michel

Replied on: 20080606085636

Hi all,

If this can help, my 2 "Zorki-Zorki"s have :
# 195065 - Industar 22 #5116322 stamped in rear of the lens barrel
# 263354 - Industar 22 #0152082 (coated, letter "n")

But, I agree with nathandayton, I have no proof that the lenses were appaired to the cameras when they left the factory. (No passport).

By the way, according to the s/n of the cameras, can somebody tell me the dates of making ?
(Or where do you think I could find such datas?)

Regards,
Michel.

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20080606100840

Michel,

I have found the numbers in the web. As far as I remember the
Zorki numbers are from lausch.com, the FED numbers I have found at fedkas site (all serial ranges approx.)

Zorki SERIAL NUMBERS
1948: 500 - 2136
1949: 2137 - 17137
1950: 17138 - 55324
1951: 55325 - 125826
1952: 125827 - 254579
1953: 254580 - 406730
1954: 406731 - 667231
1955: 8 digits begins with year
1956: 8 digits begins with year

FED SERIAL NUMBERS
1934 SN 000031 - 004000
1935 SN 004001 - 016000
1936 SN 016001 - 031000
1937 SN 031001 - 053000
1938 SN 053001 - 082000
1939 SN 082001 - 116000
1940 SN 116001 - 148000
1941 SN 148001 - 175000
1942 - 45 (World War Two)
1946 SN 175001 - 176000
1947 SN 176001 - 186000
1948 SN 186001 - 203000
1949 SN 203001 - 221000
1950 SN 221001 - 248000
1951 SN 248001 - 289000
1952 SN 289001 - 341000
1953 SN 341001 - 424000
1954 SN 424001 - 560000
1955 SN 560001 - 700000

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: nathandayton

Replied on: 20080606105856

I still have not gotten all of my cameras out and on shelves but here is one of my Zorki/Zorkis

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorkissf.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorkisst.jpg

Reply author: Jacques M.

Replied on: 20080606121118

A very special one, as we can see!
As for me, my earliest one will be the # 32870 with the lens 5021081.
If it comes: I've just bought it!

Amitiés. Jacques.
PS: not sure these datas are always precise: I'm desperatly looking for a Fed between 186000-200000. Impossible, unless we add some false Leica II, visibly made from Fed 1, with numbers in that range!

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20080606131439

Nathan,

a Zorki 1 with slow speed dial on the front? Is that for real? I have never heard of it.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: Bull Halsey

Replied on: 20080606134031

I have one with a rigid Industar, Black Face.

Body #183222
Lens #5111876

Steve

Reply author: nathandayton

Replied on: 20080606140538

Yes this was made at KMZ. It was a proof of concept camera but the Zorki 3 was almost in production so after making this one it was abandoned!

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080606145044

Hello Nathan

Thank you for showing us this fine camera. Claudio Asquini presents an earlier example of a Zorki-Zorki with slow speed dail at the front (#123892 from 1951/1952 probably):

http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/8595/zorkiss.html

The first Zorki 3 prototype under the name "Zorki 2" was build befor 1950 (1949?) as M. Mladek says, the first real Zorki 3 prototype maybe was build 1950/51 (see page 131 in Pincelle's 2nd edition).

Best wishes - Guido

Reply author: nathandayton

Replied on: 20080606163834

It was made as a test piece, but since the Zorki 3 was in prototype it was never produced in quantity!

Thanks, now we know that there were at least 2!

Reply author: Zoom

Replied on: 20080607095531

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Guido Studer
 The first Zorki 3 prototype under the name "Zorki 2" was build befor 1950 (1949?) as M. Mladek says, the first real Zorki 3 prototype maybe was build 1950/51 (see page 131 in Pincelle's 2nd edition).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In addiction see the page (in Russian):
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/zorki/zorki-3-in-production.html
This is the article from the KMZ newspaper.

Reply author: Michel

Replied on: 20080609041648

Hi Ulrich,

Thanks for the data !

Regards,
Michel.[:)]

Reply author: AidasCams

Replied on: 20080825103642

Hi again,

... just back to our old discussion ...[:)] BTW engraved markings are smaller size on the early export Zorki ...

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/zorki-export_early.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/zorki-export_early.jpg

Best Regards,
Aidas

Reply author: dmzi

Replied on: 20080825121022

Hellow, Ulrich!
I would bring in some amendments to your qualifier: last known to me Zorki, made in december of 1949 year number 18220, and in 1948 year FED-Zorki number 03347.
dmzi

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by uwittehh
 Michel,

I have found the numbers in the web. As far as I remember the
Zorki numbers are from lausch.com, the FED numbers I have found at fedkas site (all serial ranges approx.)

Zorki SERIAL NUMBERS
1948: 500 - 2136
1949: 2137 - 17137
1950: 17138 - 55324
1951: 55325 - 125826
1952: 125827 - 254579
1953: 254580 - 406730
1954: 406731 - 667231
1955: 8 digits begins with year
1956: 8 digits begins with year

FED SERIAL NUMBERS
1934 SN 000031 - 004000
1935 SN 004001 - 016000
1936 SN 016001 - 031000
1937 SN 031001 - 053000
1938 SN 053001 - 082000
1939 SN 082001 - 116000
1940 SN 116001 - 148000
1941 SN 148001 - 175000
1942 - 45 (World War Two)
1946 SN 175001 - 176000
1947 SN 176001 - 186000
1948 SN 186001 - 203000
1949 SN 203001 - 221000
1950 SN 221001 - 248000
1951 SN 248001 - 289000
1952 SN 289001 - 341000
1953 SN 341001 - 424000
1954 SN 424001 - 560000
1955 SN 560001 - 700000

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Reply author: dmzi

Replied on: 20080825122557

Excuse, and this camera works on slow speed?
dmzi

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nathandayton
 I still have not gotten all of my cameras out and on shelves but here is one of my Zorki/Zorkis

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorkissf.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorkisst.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorkisst.jpg

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Reply author: nathandayton

Replied on: 20080825153916

It is a prototype that never made it into production. Yes the slow speeds work and it is the smoothest working Zorki or FED that I have ever seen, every bit as smooth as a Leica.

Reply author: stephanvdz

Replied on: 20080825195623

my zorki zorki is 32999

Stephan

Reply author: Kievuser

Replied on: 20080826102131

The earliest s/n indicates that 1950 was the year when USSR began to export cameras in large numbers. The earliest dual logo Kiev II was also made in 1950 IIRC. These early export Kiev IIs (before 1952)are much less common according to my experience.

Reply author: cedricfan

Replied on: 20080920123506

And today I got a 1950 serial 32198 (with Kazan lens) which is second youngest here? I believe it was worth 55 euros I paid [8D]

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorki_1b.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorki_1b_32198.JPG

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/ZorkiZorki_1b_32198.JPG

But is this 1b as serial would mean or 1c as Zorki-Zorki is commonly referred as?

Smena rules

Reply author: Guido

Replied on: 20080920124150

Hello Juhani

It's a "Zorki-Zorki" export model of the Zorki 1b, absolutly. There exist export models of all Zorki's beginning with the Zorki 1b.

Best wishes - Guido

Reply author: Kievuser

Replied on: 20080921001814

Hi,

I have one with a rigid black face I-22. Body s/n 138454, lens s/n 5210910.

Regards.

Zhang

Reply author: AidasCams

Replied on: 20080923024111

Thanks to this Topic, we have a grave list of 7 early export cameras already:

#24831 Aidas coll.,
#24844 seen on eBay this year,
#31869 Okynek coll.,
#32198 Juhani coll.,
#32870 Jacques coll.,
#32999 Stephan coll.,
#33201 Ulrich coll.

More early numbers anyone? [:)]

Best Regards,
Aidas

Reply author: AidasCams

Replied on: 20081216081242

Hi again,

very nice early Zorki-Zorki #27507 can be found on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230313602147#description

BesT Regards,
Aidas[:)]

Reply author: Schwarzer_M3

Replied on: 20081223182200

Here is mine, bought it today for parts, as I am rebuilding another Zorki that was faked into a Leica Kriegsberichter.

This camera is already non-original, only the top plate is Zorki-Zorki, since it also has a serial number to the back side. It's more of a Franken-Zorki, really, so I do not feel bad in parting it out.

The top plate I will of course keep :)

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/8712ALX_0120.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/8712ALX_0119.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/8712ALX_0119.jpg

Knobs and levers, accessory shoe and finder collars will be transplanted (happy to have found collars that are worn and showing brass, the Kriegsberichter-fake is not supposed to be an as-new camera once I'm done)

Bottom plate will hopefully fit my FED 1s that had it's bottom plate machined to de-chrome it by some Leica fakers. Lens has fungus, but mount will be used to fit a Perfex Wollensak 50mm 2.8 lens into. My first RF-lens hack!

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20160101123243

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AidasCams
 Thanks to this Topic, we have a grave list of 7 early export cameras already:

#24831 Aidas coll.,
#24844 seen on eBay this year,
#31869 Okynek coll.,
#32198 Juhani coll.,
#32870 Jacques coll.,
#32999 Stephan coll.,
#33201 Ulrich coll.

More early numbers anyone? [:)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, now I own one with earlier serial number (24824):

http://ritzelkiste.de/ussrphoto/zz01.jpg

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: Jacques M.

Replied on: 20160101143230

Fine!
It seems that the 24xxx is the earliest for the double engraving...

Amitiés. Jacques.

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20160101143830

Yes, until we find a lower one ;-)

Today there was one with serial number 26xxx on ebay, with matching box! I did not get it, maybe someone of us here?

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: Lenny

Replied on: 20160119154443

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by uwittehh
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AidasCams
 Thanks to this Topic, we have a grave list of 7 early export cameras already:

#24831 Aidas coll.,
#24844 seen on eBay this year,
#31869 Okynek coll.,
#32198 Juhani coll.,
#32870 Jacques coll.,
#32999 Stephan coll.,
#33201 Ulrich coll.

More early numbers anyone? [:)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, now I own one with earlier serial number (24824)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Congratulations Ulrich,
the earliest I know about is mentioned in sovietcams.com PM1050 #24005. Aidas must have changed that not so long ago.

Reply author: uwittehh

Replied on: 20160201154102

Lenny, interesting. Now we should see if there are any Zorki-Zorki that have a lower serial number than 24000 :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Reply author: Lenny

Replied on: 20160201174437

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by uwittehh
 Lenny, interesting. Now we should see if there are any Zorki-Zorki that have a lower serial number than 24000 :-)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ulrich, I never saw #24005 and #24097 which is/was mentioned on sovietcams. Would be great to have those 2 pictures here too.

Few years ago I saw #24252 but I forgot where I saw it and I didn't copy the photo, so who knows if that one was original.

Because you posted your picture here your #24824 should be the first original one and the serial is so cute.

Reply author: Alfa2

Replied on: 20160501161741

Zorki-Zorki with slow speed dial is really impressive. I have heared about prototypes but never saw any of them before.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by uwittehh
 Michel,

I have found the numbers in the web. As far as I remember the
Zorki numbers are from lausch.com, the FED numbers I have found at fedkas site (all serial ranges approx.)

Zorki SERIAL NUMBERS
1948: 500 - 2136
1949: 2137 - 17137
1950: 17138 - 55324
1951: 55325 - 125826
1952: 125827 - 254579
1953: 254580 - 406730
1954: 406731 - 667231
1955: 8 digits begins with year
1956: 8 digits begins with year
..............................

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As dmzi noticed. Are these numbers OK ?
In 1948 KMZ produced much more than 2136 cameras. FED-Zorkis with S/N above 3000 have 1948 engraved, isn't it ?

Reply author: galloups

Replied on: 20160501195043

Zorki-zorki 1b, serial 134104. Smooth as a leica, one of my favorite camera. I made a sound comparison in 2011 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUZseisWafk

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/274376zorki1b.jpg

Reply author: Lenny

Replied on: 20160501231829

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Alfa2
 
As dmzi noticed. Are these numbers OK ?
In 1948 KMZ produced much more than 2136 cameras. FED-Zorkis with S/N above 3000 have 1948 engraved, isn't it ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you read those threads from 2008 you will find many mistakes. Even in the wiki here are still mistakes. But some years ago there was less information available and still guys like Oscar Fricke did a great job when there was no ebay and other online auctions. Some serials from Oscar Fricke are still marks in my database, for example #56042413 and #00111 KMZ.

It's a problem with all those mistakes made public some years ago, because nobody correct them. Now some collectors have great knowledge and it would be worth to record the knowledge they have, because only those Feds and Zorkis will live forever.

Reply author: Alfa2

Replied on: 20160502023614

Lenny, thank you for the answer.
It is really fine collectors gain knowledge about old russian cameras. In 90's I thought it will be not possible. Russians hasn't documented informations about their productions like e.g. Leica did. I thought some informations will be lost because time goes by, people who produced cameras die, some evidences and documents disappier.
So this is really fascinating, this possibility to know new facts and to discover them.

Reply author: levonsa

Replied on: 20160503113804

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/352016_Z.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/352016_Z.jpg

Reply author: levonsa

Replied on: 20160503113926

From D.Bessonov,s collection.

Reply author: Lenny

Replied on: 20160503121448

Thanks Alexey,

there it is, the first known Zorki with export engravings.

D.Bessonov did a good job, it seems the shutter is cocked, which gives relief to the opening curtain on the small drum. That's very important to keep the curtains in good shape.

Reply author: levonsa

Replied on: 20160505073513

Lenny! I think the curtains performance over 50 years ago! But even if they are original! We can also take photos now Canon, Nikon and other ?![:D]