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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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 Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 02:59:58 AM
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Hello,
100 USD is a nice price but I doubt it's a genuine military item.
Best,
Jed |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 04:21:59 AM
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Hello all,
This Kiev has a s/n #76xxx.
It is known that "No Names" were manufactured only during the years 1963-64.
Besides, the announcement says :"maybe constructed from some salvaged German components…" Were "German components" of Contax II still available in 1976 ?!
I agree with Jed : it is certainly a repainted Kiev…
Best regards,
Michel.
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 04:25:54 AM
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Hi,
That's ok with camera - I don't like it either, but are the markings "Fabrique en URSS" common for soviet lens?
Regards,
Aidas |
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jed
France
391 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 05:14:52 AM
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Hello Aidas,
First time I see a French marking on a J12 Lens 
It seems to be quite uncommon, your're right.
Best,
Jed |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 06:27:29 AM
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| I believe everything is a fake including "Fabrique en URSS" and the paint wear, |
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 06:52:29 AM
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Very interesting!
I enlarged the picture of "Fabrique en URSS" It is an interesting remake,
.... Made in USSR
Fab riqué en USSR
Fab was added
the M originated the r and i
the a turned to be a q
the d turned to be a u
it was not difficult add an aigu accent to é
the i was changed to e |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 07:38:32 AM
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The seller writes "Contax II made for the russian army…"
SO… what is the reason to write "Fabriqué…" on a lens provided to the russian army ?
Beside, in you write "Fabriqué…" in French, you must write URSS and not USSR !
Michel. |
Edited by - Michel on Jan 24 2008 07:40:48 AM |
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 08:37:50 AM
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| ... but it's written "URSS" not vice versa ... |
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 08:37:56 AM
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I saw such a camera some 10 years ago in Moscow. IIRC, it was a 1960's Kiev 4a in brand new condition for $150. If the price was not so high, I might have bought it. In stead, I bought a Kiev 5 and Kiev 3 for less.:-) I assumed it was a factory made camera for the military.
Kievuser |
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Michel
France
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 08:42:54 AM
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To Aidas,
Sorry, Aidas, wrong spectacles !!!
You're right.
Regards,
Michel. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 09:57:43 AM
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Interesting modification if only paint job wasn't peeling all over the place...
1. regarding lens, if it was repainted, should've been easy to silk screen the "Fabrique en URSS" as well on it... it does not look to be engraved to me...
2. Army stuff usually has the hammer, sickle and the star, absence of which which definitely makes stand out as someone's home job.
Vlad
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 11:19:20 AM
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My god! winning bid $1,225... well it's going back to Russia :) I know this buyer, I just sold him my Global 35 ... And Zhang was asking whether there are serious Russian collectors
Vlad.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 11:21:38 AM
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This camera sold for $1225.00 to a Russian camera dealer. It did have a small hammer and sickle on the front plate just below the rangefinder window ... look closely. So, maybe it was a real Soviet Army camera after all ... like Zhang said!
Regards, Bill
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 11:58:31 AM
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I have to jump and declare this fake, but come no, guys - 1976 Kiev, with an early 1957, KMZ-made J-9, and some odd-ball 'export'J-12, all painted the same color, aged...
I am not questioning the price - this is free market, and people are entitle to pay whatever they want. but find it very unlikely for this outfit to be real.
If they ever produced military Kievs, then:
1. we would surely know about them by now
2. all parts would be matching as far as years
3. it would surely be better made (look at peeling paing on the chrome J-12.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 12:32:31 PM
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| Well Bill, Yuri does present a very convincing argument... It is all mismatched... |
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 12:37:20 PM
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I'm happy that nobody of us were participating in this crazy auction ...  And the buyer is acting in behalf of rich enough russian camera collector ...
Regards,
Aidas |
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1020 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 1:44:14 PM
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I think I saw one like this for sale a long time ago. And you never know what is genuine and what isn't if you can't compare to an existing one. Anyway, this proves that there is seroius collectors in Russia, like said!
Smena rules |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 3:21:54 PM
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Hi Yuri,
Yes I am unsure about this camera. All of your points about mis-matching dates on lenses, etc. are why I think it can be fake.
However, it did have a "no-name" front plate only with a Soviet Army logo or marking, so this is unusual, but can also easily be faked.
Of course it could be something that was used by the army but not "made for" the army by arsenal. But even in this case I would think that if a camera was to be used by the Soviet Army, say in a combat zone, where it may have been painted dull green so as not to shine or reflect in the light, then the chrome winding knobs will be painted green too, especially since the chrome lenses are painted!
So all in all I think it is a fake, but very nice for the collection and I will admit that I bid on it myself, much less than it went for, so my bid was not put in by the bidnapper!
Maybe we will find out more about it from one of our Russian collector friends.
Regards, Bill
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 4:57:54 PM
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Bill,
As everyone alread said, I also think this is a fake. But the one I saw in Moscow was a brand new 1960's Kiev. I doubt if people faked Russian cameras 10 years ago?
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
This camera sold for $1225.00 to a Russian camera dealer. It did have a small hammer and sickle on the front plate just below the rangefinder window ... look closely. So, maybe it was a real Soviet Army camera after all ... like Zhang said!
Regards, Bill
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 5:36:19 PM
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Hi Zhang,
Didn't mean to say you thought this one was real, but that you thought one like it you saw was real.
Maybe there are real Soviet Army Kievs, but I have never seen any that I knew were authentic. I think there were fakes being made 10 years ago.
Have you bought any rare Russian stuff in China recently, Zhang?
Regards, Bill
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 5:46:02 PM
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Hi Bill,
I saw some rare stuff offered, but I could not afford them now.
That is why I suspected that there are more Russian collectors now with the economic situation improving in Russia. I only bought an early Zorki 2C that is different form later ones, and a 'b' prefix Kiev 3 recently.
Cheers,
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Hi Zhang,
...
Have you bought any rare Russian stuff in China recently, Zhang?
Regards, Bill
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 6:27:18 PM
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So, if the "Military Kiev" went for $1225.00, that means that the underbidder bid $1200.00 and the high bidder bid some amount over $1200.00. This means that not just one person thought this was something special .... thought it was probably not fake.
This is quite unusual. Especially because the high bidder was a Russian camera dealer of some experience.
What do you think folks?
Regards, Bill
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zhang
Kievuser
310 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 9:43:33 PM
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Hi Bill,
To give you an idea of some rare items' price in China, Here are some examples:
35cm/5.6 mirror lens s/n 5645 price: 350 euro
TSVVS s/n 507, price 2800 euro
J-3 s/n 5103108, 160 euro
1948 BK 35/2.8 Kiev mount, s/n 000996, 280 euro
Fed 28/4.5 320 euro....
quote:
Originally posted by Kievuser
Hi Bill,
I saw some rare stuff offered, but I could not afford them now.
That is why I suspected that there are more Russian collectors now with the economic situation improving in Russia. I only bought an early Zorki 2C that is different form later ones, and a 'b' prefix Kiev 3 recently.
Cheers,
Zhang
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Hi Zhang,
...
Have you bought any rare Russian stuff in China recently, Zhang?
Regards, Bill
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 9:59:35 PM
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Yes Zhang, those are expensive prices alright. For us in the US a Euro is about $1.50 now ... so the TSVVS would be $4200.00.
No wonder you didn't buy that stuff! Thanks Zhang.
Regards, Bill
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 10:07:13 PM
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It is impossible to tell what is happening on eBay, things may get unpredictable.
I would not try to justify the price, it is what it is. That's what auctions are for. The price looks absolutely crazy to me, but I've seen auctions for $50 items sold for 10 times their value.
I absolutely do not buy 'no name' and hammer and sickle. Why would they remove the Kiev name?? In 1976? What is secret about it? And they kept the Arsenal logo on the accessory shoe.
Arsenal is a military factory, they know how to make real military products. I know the quality of Soviet military equipment - this is NOT one.
To me, this is 100% fake, but fakes, as we know, can have substantial value. And I have to credit the seller, the ad is perfectly legitimate, no false statements.
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Yuri Boguslavsky
fedka
USA
240 Posts
My Collection
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 10:43:54 PM
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hehehehe... maybe you should put this FED on eBay with that as a starting price.. you never know... The climate is just right, all the buyers who didn't win the Kiev may go for this one...
Vlad |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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okynek
759 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2008 : 10:30:00 PM
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getting more and more entertaining !!!
I wish some one buy it  |
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