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 When were the FED classifications introduced?
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad

USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 29 2008 :  12:22:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So I'm looking through all these books and all of the sudden thought of this: were FED-S and FED-B names original factory names or these are just classifications that were given to these cameras by book authors to help classify these.. I'm pretty sure things like 1a, 1b, 1c is all invention of Princelle, then elaborated on by Asquini and Pegorari... but FED-S and FED-B.. there is absolutely nothing on the cameras that indicates the nomenclature.. I know FED-S were commonly called "Komandirsky" - Commander's... which brings me to another horrible thought - the box set that Nathan posted recently, the plaque on it says in Russian - FED-B... well.. if this is non-factory designation that means this is a collector's assembled set and not a factory one, sort of like what Alain did, but this may have been done 30 years ago... I am a complete newbie in this field so I let the FED experts put me in my place ...

Vlad.
BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - May 29 2008 :  03:37:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Vlad, i will ask soon JLP when meeting him in Bièvres Foto fair...
but , as far as I remember, this classification was first his initiative before he meet Jacques Daniel (I will ask also to J.D., a very good friend for me....)
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Jacques M.
France
2589 Posts
Posted - May 29 2008 :  08:18:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi Vlad,
For the S, we can be sure it is a factory designation: the passports mention the C with the 1/1000th of a second and the 2/50 lens. DVD show such a passport in their collection. We can suppose it's the same for the B (V).
They show too S cameras with a C engraved on the top. I am really dubitative about that. I should be glad to have your opinion.
As for the 1a,b... g, of course, it's a specialists' classification. Thanks to JLP and Pegorari who help us to understand ourselves when we speak of Feds!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 29 2008 :  09:24:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi see, but you're saying "V" (Russian B), but in Nathan's set for example the sign says "B" (Russian Б)...
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 29 2008 :  10:16:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The camera in Nathan's set does not have the slow speeds and so is not a "FED-b". As far as I know, there is no "FED-V". So in both cases, Nathan's camera and the one with the slow speed dial, they are called "FED-b".

Nathan has added to his WIKI entry that he believes that the camera is labeled "FED-b" because it has an accessory shoe, and thus was thought of by the Communards at FED as the second version of FED ... so "FED-b".

I agree with this theory and I don't think this set was put together by a collector, and is more likely a presentation set put together by someone at FED Zavod (either officially or unofficially).

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 29 2008 :  10:25:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hmm.. I see, that does make a lot of sense. I guess they just picked confusing nomenclature then..
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 29 2008 :  10:27:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Yes... in the non-collector, real world things are confusing!

Regards, Bill

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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 30 2008 :  02:47:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

If I remember correctly, the war-time (1942) book by Bunimovich "Camera Fed. Practical Guide" was the first public source I know to announce FED-C camera. Not so sure about FED-B camera, but it was already mentioned in Juriy Ryshkov book "Brief History of Soviet Cameras" (1993).

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Jacques M.
France
2589 Posts
Posted - May 30 2008 :  04:33:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi,
Sorry for the confusions between B, V, and b! I hadn't (yet?) discovered any new series of Fed...
As said above, the factory mentioned the C (for the S) in the passports. For example: http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/fed/fed.htm

If I am not wrong, the first edition of Bunimovitch's book dates
of 1938 (?).

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 30 2008 :  05:20:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Jacques,

Sorry to say, but I'm very suspicious about these "new-looking" Fed-C cameras with "C" engraved... The manual guide for FED-C looks to be the authentic one ...

Yea, you are right about 1st edition of Bunimovich book. It was issued in 1938, but no information about FED-C yet. I was talking about ultra rare 2nd edition with FED, FED-C, Pionier and FAG introduced ...

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 30 2008 :  05:26:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
BTW I do possess few old soviet books (1936), announcing regular FED camera as "FED II" ...
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Jacques M.
France
2589 Posts
Posted - May 30 2008 :  06:59:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

No problem, you are the winner, Aidas! Impossible to be better than 1936!
I am very suspicious too about these S engraved C on DVD site... I was only speaking of the passports with "C" written on them.

Amitiés. Jacques.
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts
Posted - May 30 2008 :  07:30:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone,

I must say that I agree totally with Jacques comments about the Fed-C cameras on the DVD site. There is something wrong here. I have never seen a Fed-C engraved as such, and the serial numbers make no sense when compared to the body style, ie sharp corners should only be after 55,000.
Cheers, Jim.
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Dayton nathandayton
USA
95 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 30 2008 :  08:11:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit nathandayton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I will go out on a limb here! I am 98% sure that they are "after market items" not original! This is just from the pictures. If I could examine them I would probably raise that number to 99.99%.(I am an engineer and almost never reach 100%)

I was in a position to examine large numbers of these cameras as they passed through Berlin to the west before the fall of the "Eastern Empire" so some of my opinions are based on seeing large numbers of these items. I have probably seen 20 or so Fed Cs none of which were like the 2 with the "C" engraving!

Edited by - nathandayton on May 30 2008 08:17:56 AM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - May 30 2008 :  2:01:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree with Nathan, also "C" looks a bit out of place, I don't think the font is close enough, but that's debatable, what is obvious though that I would think they would've centered the whole "ФЭД-С" line above the rest of the inscription as it is centered but instead it is slightly to the right, like the "-C" was added afterward.

Vlad.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jun 02 2008 :  04:17:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi all,
so , as you know , i was in Bièvres foto fair , yesterday wher i bought and saw many item (i was too poor to buy dream Fed 1, never saw here )...
But i was happy to shake hand of my friend JL Princelle (sitting whith Jim MC K. also Dieter Sheiba...)
I asked Jean loup about Fed classification:
he answered :
"I wrote that after readind O. Fricke's documents and complement ; then I visit Karkov and met fed Factory leaders. reading my classification they approved whithout subject. "

(Joint here two pics : JLP whithout hairs
JMK whith glasses and D Sch. whith red cap.)
In the corner : the new JLP book about French Camera


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/bievres jlp 1.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/bievres jlp 2.jpg

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jun 02 2008 :  11:03:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Alain, thank you for finding that out from the horse's mouth, as to say (very weird English expression ). Very Cool! Did he have to say anything about FED-S and FED-B by any chance? Also, the question on everyone's mind is - is JLP aware of this forum? Did he ever visit? Does he have anything to say about that?

Thank you!
Vlad.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jun 02 2008 :  11:22:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
JLP is a very versatile man and very busy....his horse is a Harley Davison ...but you know in france speed limit is 90 km/h and not so much clear (free) road in Paris' area where he live.
So now he is not at all interested for communication about Soviets cameras.
he got a very important documentation from P.H. Pont and spend most of the time writting about French cameras (photo and movies)

His philosophy is only to promote private collections and collectors (what he does whith FSU cameras)
But i ask if he knows USSr forum ...answer is yes ! since i published his photo on.
thanks from him to vlad ...
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jun 09 2008 :  7:56:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Alain! Too bad he's not concentrating on Soviet cameras anymore, I guess we will have to leave this job now up to Viktor Suglob and hope for the best . Meanwhile we have our little circle to keep the discussions and discoveries alive!
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