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 FED 1 Siberian model
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Jeff Watanabe
Sangetsu

Japan
16 Posts
Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  08:26:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a few questions about the FED 1 Siberian model camera. I've heard from some that these cameras weren't really made by FED, and are just regular FED cameras which were modified to look "different" so they could be sold for more money. Is this really true?

The reason I ask is that a camera shop which I sometimes frequent has a very clean FED Siberian model camera. It has the tall shutter speed dial, and the extended shutter button, as well as an FED lens with extended knobs for the focus ring and aperture ring.

If there truly is a Siberian model FED, how can one tell the difference between the genuine article and a fake?

Another question I have is about the FED-Zorki camera. I have found one of these cameras marked FED -1948- Zorki on the top. The prices I've seen for this camera on Ebay are pretty high, but the price in the camera shop is the same as their other Zorki and FED cameras. Is the FED/Zorki camera valuable?

Thanks,

Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  09:25:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

I'm gonna put in my 2 cents and I'll have the experts do the rest of the talking here:

1. My opinion - FED Siberia is an aftermarket invention. I do not think there ever was such a model made by FED. My personal opinion. I think for amount of work to modify the camera it may warrant a price up to $200US... also my personal opinion .

2. FED-Zorki IS a fairly rare/uncommon camera BUT as many will point out for every genuine FED-Zorki there are 2 fakes . So make sure you have a reference image of the real thing when you're buying one, that is has the right shutter release button, correct-looking main engraving and the shutter dial engraving and the "toilet seat" on the top cover of the camera matches the original. It is definitely a valuable camera if it is in fact original. Worth checking it out IMHO if the price is good.

Cheers,
Vlad.

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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
984 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  09:45:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Vlad, your "1." must mean Siberia?

And I believe my Fed-Zorki is genuine:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/20112009_Zorki_FEDb.JPG



Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  11:46:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OOOPS! Yes you're right, i meant FED Siberia! Post edited..
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  11:48:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Juhani,

I may be very wrong, but isn't speed dial engraving on FED-Zorki supposed to be very fine and smaller? Or both variations existed? Can someone chime in?

Vlad
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  11:53:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is Nathan's camera similar in Serial# range, note the shutter button difference too although the dial engraving seems close enough.. I guess earlier ones were with small font...



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/fz482670t.jpg
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  11:55:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Also reference this topic as it shows a variety of FED-Zorki cameras.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=747
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Jeff Watanabe
Sangetsu
Japan
16 Posts
Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  7:43:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the quick answers. I'm rather sorry that the FED Siberia model isn't real. I took a close look at this camera yesterday, and it really was in nice condition. One thing I am curious about with this camera is the base plate. It is rather thick, with a raised tripod socket, and the release latch is quite large. I have not seen this baseplate on any other kind of camera, and this makes me wonder if in fact, that there really was a FED Siberia model. The price for the camera is $400, by the way.

I will look more closely at the FED-Zorki this weekend. When I looked at it before, it seemed a little old and worn, but it was complete with the lens, and possibly the case as well. If I get it, I'll post some pics, and you can tell me what you think.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Nov 20 2009 :  8:00:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff, all FED Siberias have the raised tripod socket. To tell you the truth $400 is a bit much, Yuri Davidenko (www.dvdtechnik.com) usually sells it for around $200 and he puts these up for sale quite often.

For Fed-Zorki being old and worn is probably a good sign that means it's probably not a newer fake...

Cheers,
Vlad
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Jacques M.
France
2455 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2009 :  10:00:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Jeff!
Some more words about Fed Siberia.
There were probably some Fed Siberia originally made by Fed from NKVD 1d. But now, all the Siberia-Paulus on the market are rebuilt cameras from 1f or 1g Fed.

Anyway, it is funny to have one in ones collection. It breaks the monotony: all the Fed 1 look the same. But it is interesting to find one with correct serial number/speeds. Bodies with serial number before circa 300000 must have the old scale of speeds (from 1/20th). Even if we buy non original cameras, they must be plausible!

OK with Vlad: DVD often have well made Paulus.

Amitiés. Jacques.

Edited by - Jacques M. on Nov 21 2009 10:52:01 AM
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Jeff Watanabe
Sangetsu
Japan
16 Posts
Posted - Dec 02 2009 :  07:28:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, I passed on the FED Siberia model, but had a chance to take a closer look at the FED-Zorki. It appears to have the correct shutter button, and it has the smaller numbers engraved on the shutter speed dial. The only difference between this one and the in Vlad's picture is that the shutter speeds go up to 1/1000 of a second. The shutter seems to work at all speeds (tested side by side against my Leica III), though one of the curtains seems to have small holes in it. The lens is the same as shown in cedricfan's picture.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 07 2009 :  4:50:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So did you buy it Jeff? I think if I'm not mistaken that's a rare FED-Zorki S model .

Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 07 2009 :  7:00:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Vlad,
There isn't really a FED-Zorki - S model as far as I know. Many Fed-Zorki cameras have a 1000th speed (probably about 1/2 of them) and they were not sold with the F.2 lens.

The FED-1-S has both the F2.0 lens as well as the 1000th speed. So it is able to take photographs closer to stop-motion and also have a faster lens.

Still, all FED-Zorkis are pretty rare with an estimate of about 5000 made during 1948 and 1949. The 1949 model is very rare and probably only about 500 were made!

Another camera that is rare would be the FED-1-S "Berdsk".

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 07 2009 :  11:58:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill,

I stand corrected! I didn't realize such high percentage of those had 1/1000.. I thought those were fairly uncommon among FED-Zorki's...

Thanks once again for keeping the record straight!

Vlad.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  01:59:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

On our own Wiki there are 11 FED-Zorki cameras listed and 7 of them have 1/1000th speed, so maybe even a higher percentage.

I have a few and will dig them out and add them to the list on the Wiki to see what speed they are also.

Regards, Bill

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Jacques M.
France
2455 Posts
Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  06:59:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi Bill (and other friends!)

I think you are not far from reality when you speak of a percentage of 50% of Fed-Zorki with 1/1000th. It is what I have observed too.

This mechanism certainly comes from spares of unused Fed S. A reason more to consider that Zorkies were first made with Fed parts. It's always the case for the (very rare) Zorki 1a, and even after: I have a 1b serial # 32870 always with the Fed's triangular tip of rangefinder...

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  07:07:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I think, that Bill is very correct about Fed-Zorki with/1000s! I have calculated it simple way and my result was 49% . BTW at least 900 cameras with "1949" engravings are known to exist, so not as rare as Bill mentioned before ...

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  11:30:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Aidas,

How do you know 900 of 1949 models?

I have seen so few for sale compared to 1948 models ... certainly not one out of five are 1949. I think over the years I have only seen two or three, and probably more than 100 from 1948.

Regards, Bill

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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  12:08:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Bill and the other friends

The around 900 1949-FED-Zorki's are an estimation based on the known serial numbers I have collected in the past years. The highest number of a FED-Zorki from 1949 is 05722 (Alain's collection, but with a later changed shutter release as far as I remember). The next number below would be 05477. The first FED-Zorki from 1949 I have seen has the number 04813.

For the 1948 FED-Zorki's: The lowest number I ever seen is 00373 and the highest 04797, so we can estimate a number of around 4500 of such models. Together a production of 5500 FED-Zorki's will be realistic.

The 1/1000 speed is mostly common on all FED-Zorki, but there are some with only 1/500 seconds. I have no idea about the percentage. Most (but not all) fakes have only 1/500.

Best wishes - Guido
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  12:08:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Bill,

I do possess a Fed-Zorki 1949 with serial number #04813, our friend Alain has latest so far known camera #05722 ... It's simple mathematics to know the approximate number of "1949" released ...

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  12:11:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guido Studer

Hello Bill and the other friends

The around 900 1949-FED-Zorki's are an estimation based on the known serial numbers I have collected in the past years. The highest number of a FED-Zorki from 1949 is 05722 (Alain's collection, but with a later changed shutter release as far as I remember). The next number below would be 05477. The first FED-Zorki from 1949 I have seen has the number 04813.

For the 1948 FED-Zorki's: The lowest number I ever seen is 00373 and the highest 04797, so we can estimate a number of around 4500 of such models. Together a production of 5500 FED-Zorki's will be realistic.

The 1/1000 speed is mostly common on all FED-Zorki, but there are some with only 1/500 seconds. I have no idea about the percentage. Most (but not all) fakes have only 1/500.

Best wishes - Guido




Hello Guido,

we have told the same information synchronically ...

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 08 2009 :  12:25:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
... Guido is quite pesimistic about total number of Fed-Zorki cameras released... All my Zorki data about Zorki cameras on my office PC unfortunately, but I try to say some facts from my memory if you don't mind ... An earliest so far known Fed-Zorki has s/n #00121 (Fed-Zorki manual guide), up to #00750 almost all cameras are covered in thin Zeiss leather, instead of late vulcanite. So we have at least 5650 cameras, of which only 900 units have "1949" markings. An earliest so far known type-b camera is owned by our friend Bill (sorry, I can't remember the exact number indeed ...)

Best Regards,
Aidas

Edited by - AidasCams on Dec 08 2009 12:27:29 PM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 23 2009 :  8:40:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So the new SSK book (Suglob, Shaternik, Kochergin) says that the FED-Zorki with 1/1000 speed were bundled with Sonnar 2/50, ZK 1.5/50 or ZK 2/50 when the 1/500 models came with I-22 3.5/500. I guess this info is new for me, did anyone else know that?

Vlad.
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Jacques M.
France
2455 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  11:52:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi Vlad!

I am a bit surprised too.
I thought that the ZK ones had been put first, then the Industar 22 when ready? Or if they were available at the same time, the buyers had to pay more for the ZK?

I saw on eBay numerous examples of F-Z with 1/500th equipped with ZK, and reversedly F-Z with 1/1000th with Industar Moskva: I own one...

So, is there something like a proof in the SSK?

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4190 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 26 2009 :  12:00:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Jacques. No it's just a statement in the book.
Cheers,
Vlad
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