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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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 Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 11:11:44 AM
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so weird... it kind of points to the fact that FED was still experimenting with various coverings during the first years, maybe some proven more expensive to use than others so they kept switching?
Which Alexander is this? Bronstein?
Thanks for posting this piece Alain! You keep amazing us with your great finds!
Vlad |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 11:24:02 AM
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sorry , no infos about the dealer (alexander) on the picture.
just to say it is a very sympatic guy. |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 12:27:11 PM
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To me these genuine early FEDs look like the shiny covering is not original. The original smooth covering does not look so shiny in photos I have seen. Also, the numbers seem a bit too high for this smooth covering. And ... when you look closely at the cut edges of the covering on the cameras in the photos, it looks too sharp, with no wear at all. So to me... the coverings are not original. Just my opinion.
Vlad, you can see this smooth covering and read about it in Princelle. He is fairly thorough in his facts about coverings.
Regards, Bill
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 3:00:55 PM
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Hi bill,
for the first time i do not share your opinion : because when the camera was in my hands i can see tipycal old green and soft moistures on the edges , screw and arround hole on the middle of back side.
this cover materials seemed to be very old, for me , not at all so flat as modern materials,(but may be not factory made ???? who can say ?)
anyway, not at all fake looking.... |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 3:51:52 PM
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Then, Alain, I think you are correct and they will be old if they looked old to you when you held it. No doubt you are right and I am just judging from photos, so I can easily be wrong.
So then, why nobody buys it! Between the VOOMP and the two FEDS this is some rare stuff that you can pay any money for. Some day they will be very, very valuable. Look at the rarest Leicas ... how much do they sell for? Are all collector's of Russian cameras not rich? ;-)
Regards, Bill
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
2002 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 6:01:50 PM
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The brilliant finish were originally done from celluloid stuff. Considering the age, these surely would be shrunk. If not, these should be refurbished. Of course... well refurbished.
If curtains are working, it is clear that those cameras were recently overhauled.
Regards
LP |
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Dayton nathandayton
USA
95 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 6:05:59 PM
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| just my 2 centimes, there is nothing in any literature about smothe brown(or black) bodies! |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 02 2008 : 6:54:33 PM
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Hi Nathan,
Page 93 Princelle 2nd Edition pictures FED #58 and FED #253, both with smooth black covering. He calls it (in the text on the same page),
"fine black vulcanite covering". As well, I have seen others with the smooth black covering in a friends collection. But I have never seen brown.
Also, Oscar Frike, in his important history of FED states:
" The new FEDs were now straight Leica II copies, except for the lack of an accessory clip. The example shown in USSR in Construction is noticeable for its slightly taller rangefinder housing and smooth('celluloid') covering on the camera body. A surviving early FED (No. 279) has the same smooth covering, but the rest of the camera is finished in black paint, and the rangefinder housing is of normal proportions. It is reasonable to assume that among the first examples there must have been some experimentation."
Here is a photo of camera #279 (1934) with the smooth black vulcanite (not celluloid):
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/f14.jpg
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 03 2008 : 9:50:26 PM
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| Guys what do I do with this one? I'm trying to organize these entries by Alain, should this go into catalog? |
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 03 2008 : 10:15:22 PM
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Vlad,
You could at least add the photo of the camera with the black smooth cover to FED-1a. It is a variation of FED-1a and would be in that category, and for sure smooth black covers were made on these early cameras. You could also add the one with the brown cover in the same category and say it is the only example known with brown, which may be original although there is no documentation at present that brown smooth vulcanite was ever used. That would be my suggestion, and of course it could always be changed if new information came to light.
Regards, Bill
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 03 2008 : 10:19:53 PM
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| Thank you Bill, I will do so! |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 02:28:51 AM
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i think so ...
ask if you need big size pics (still in my P.C.). |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 03:50:17 AM
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Hi all,
In my humble opinion the glossy shiny covering, (not just smooth) on these two cameras is not original. After all these cameras are both well over seventy years old. I think it probable that at some stage in their life the original black covering became too worn or damaged for further use and needed to be replaced. So I think that these cameras were recovered (possibly by the same person), not to deceive anyone, but just as an honest repair.
My main reason for thinking this way is that these two cameras are in the same place at the same time. If these cameras were factory finished in this way the chances of them being together now would be very remote, especially as this glossy covering doesn't appear on any other Fed-1's to our knowledge.
Regards, Jim |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 04:08:27 AM
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may be Jim .....
, but in fact this guy had also, in the same time, many very rare item too on his stall (such as reporter , Sport , Voomp and so on....)
so , look at the brown camera : typical green soft oxydes arround the middle back plug...(you can find that on old stocks cameras) |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 05:19:52 AM
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Hello,
All that is beautiful and most desirable. Ah, if I were rich...
I already saw such covers. But I cannot remember neither where nor on which cameras...
Anyway, thank a lot, Alain!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 07:35:19 AM
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Hi Alain,
I take your point, and I'm not being critical of these camera,s, in fact I think they are beautiful and very desirable. Not to mention exceedingly rare. I'm certainly not suggesting that that they have been re-covered to deceive anyone.
There's nothing wrong with the covering of either camera, they are lovely.I just don't think that shiny covering was applied at the Fed factory.
As for there being signs of corrosion around the edges of the covering, well I think that is understandable and normal because the shiny covers may well have been fitted thirty of forty years ago.
To my way of thinking a camera does not have to be in totally original condition as it left the factory to be collectible, in fact I would tend to be a little suspicious of a well used camera that was seventy years old had never had any repairs, improvements, or replacement parts in it's lifetime.
I think the important thing is that any changes should be honestly made, and not done simply to decieve a potential buyer as with fake engraving, etc.
So to change the covering on a camera especially if the old covering was showing signs of serious wear or damage is a legitimate repair, and if done well can even be better than the original.
I believe that honestly made repairs and improvements can actually add to the charactor and desirability of a camera.
In conclusion I agree that both of these early Fed-1,s are superb, though I don't think that I would pay 2000-2500 euros for one of them!!! |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 11:22:20 AM
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hi Jim,
I hope no offence to you, and if yes i apologise  ...your opinion is very respectable too.
What is interesting here is to exchange opinions....long time to this forum and anyway thanks again to Vlad for this playground.... |
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James McGee
James McGee
Azerbaijan
192 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 10:19:55 PM
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Hi Alain,
Of course I am not offended. and I respect the opinion of everyone on this forum. In fact it's a great thing that we sometimes have differing thoughts because it opens our minds.
I agree that we owe a debt of gratitude to Vlad for creating without question the best and most informative site in the world for Soviet photo equipment.
Cheers, Jim. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 04 2008 : 11:16:01 PM
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I appreciate your appreciation  , and stop thanking me, my ears are burning already , just enjoy the good company and intellectual conversations.
Vlad |
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2008 : 2:07:57 PM
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serial numbers for info , i saw on these cameras:
fed black "wax" n° 508 another n° 927
fed caramel (brown) n° 968. |
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rares Fed 1
