About Fed-Zorkis...once more!
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Topic
Topic author: Jacques M.
Posted on: 20100424110859
Hi!
I have recently received my second 1948 Fed-Zorki.
It has the 1/500th of a second, and when the baseplate is removed, the paint of the shutter cage is not bright black, but like the zorkies (crisp?). Serial number of the camera: 02373.
My other Fed-Zorki, the 03278, has the 1/1000th and a black bright paint.
On looking on the net, all the 1948 Fed-Zorkies seem to have the same characteristics: bright paint and 1/1000th, or crisp paint and 1/500th. But is it a general rule?
And if we look at the wiki, it seems that the first Fed-Zorkies always have the 1/1000th (idem for the Fed-KMZ). Does it mean that KMZ first used the parts from Fed, and among these parts, there were mainly or only shutters of Fed S?
In that case, Fed would have made probably several thousand S shutters more than I thought (c.13000). And the real first shutters made by KMZ would be these 1/500th with crisp paint...
But I don't really know if I think "straight"! [:p]
Amitiés. Jacques.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 002.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 002.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 004.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2442010_Fed-Zorki 004.jpg
Replies
Reply author: nightphoto
Replied on: 20100424140512
I agree with that and it is a very interesting and astute observation, Jacques. Probably when FED was returned from Berdsk after the war, the FED-S shutter cages were given to Krasnogorsk to start making FEDs with. Or maybe these shutter cages were in storage during the war somewhere besides Berdsk and then given to KMZ.
Regards, Bill
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20100503075205
Thanks Bill!
I would find interesting if those who have a Fed-Zorki check their camera and tell if these hypothesis are right:
-1/500th sutter with a "crisp" black paint,
-1/1000th shutter with a bright black paint.
Thanks if you can. (and even if you cannot![:D])
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: cedricfan
Replied on: 20100503095459
Thought that I had lost mine in a pile of Kiev-fives and Drougs, but foud it hiding behind Seagull 205's. Maybe I should do something like reorganizing...
1948 #2593 1/500 and semiglossy black, not at all as "bad paint" as in pic above
Falls between Jacques' two cameras timewise also!
Best regards,
Juhani
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20100503153626
Mine with 1/1000 of a second has also the FED style bright paint on the bottom. Built in 1948, serial number 2913.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20101021074245
Hello!
My 1949 Fed-Zorki, serial # 05159 has the 1/500th and crisp paint.
So, for the moment, it seems we can confirm the initial hypothesis: Fed-Zorki with 1/1000th have the shutter cage with bright paint. And those with 1/500th have crisp paint: what Junani calls "bad paint"[:D]
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: AlexanderK
Replied on: 20110131151553
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20110201012717
Hi Alexander,
When you say that the "first" has the 1/500th of the second, is it the upper or the lower on your picture?
thanks! Jacques.
Reply author: AlexanderK
Replied on: 20110201045926
Hi Jacques,
the 1/500th is upper camera on the picture.
Regards, Alexander
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20110201052250
So, that's an interesting exception to the rule about paint! [:D]
It's the first Fed-Zorki I see with 1/1000th shutter and "crisp" paint.
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110202083051
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20110202090748
Hi Aidas!
It's only a theory!
Anyway, it could not be a rule: the first Fed-Zorki (and Fed-KMZ) were made of Fed shutter parts. So, it would not be so astonishing to have bright paint for early Fed-Zorki with 1/500th shutters. I remember too Alain's Fed-KMZ I had in my hands (but it had 1/1000th shutters. Not yours?)
Which is unusual is to find a 1/1000th shutter with crisp paint. Till now, I supposed KMZ had used Fed S shutters (bright paint) up to the end. Probably I am wrong, and they could have made some by themselves.
So, I wait for your openings! [8D]
And congrats for this rarest camera...
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: cedricfan
Replied on: 20110202091906
#02593 from 1948 and 1/500 smooth = half-glossy paint.
Best regards,
Juhani
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110202094159
Jacques,
all these very few known Fed-KMZ cameras have 1/1000s indeed.
Your theory about different paintings of the shutter cage is very interesting and meaningful indeed. Let's imagine 2 wooden boxes crowded with shutters for Fed-Zorki cameras [:)]. Shutters with 1/1000s in one box and shutters with 1/500s in another one. 2 different productional batches could be painted in different ways, right? I would say that shutters with 1/1000s (bright) and 1/500s (crisp) could be a rule, though knowing that all rules have exceptions unfortunately [:)].
Now about FED/KMZ origins. I'm almost sure, that all shutters of Zorki cameras up to s/n #7000-#8000 have FED's origins indeed. My Zorki #06768 comes with shutter, indentical to regular Fed-Zorki, whereas my another type-A Zorki #09314 comes with regular shutter of KMZ origin already.
Website's system doesn't allow me to place a fragment of regular KMZ shutter unfortunately... [:(]
Best Regards,
Aidas
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110202094530
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by cedricfan</i>
<br />#02593 from 1948 and 1/500 smooth = half-glossy paint.
Best regards,
Juhani
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Juhani,
Your Fed-Zorki is an unique camera, since beeing EXCEPTION TO THE RULE! [:D][:D][:D]
Best Regards,
Aidas
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110202095144
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110204014836
Hi,
the results of my openings below:
Fed-Zorki 1948 #01604 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #02677 (1/500s) - crisp paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #02767 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #03148 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1949 #04813 (1/500s) - bright paint; !!!
Fed-Zorki 1949 #05550 (1/500s) - crisp paint.
Best Regards,
Aidas[:)]
Reply author: AidasCams
Replied on: 20110204043508
more results from Alexey's shelf: [:)]
Fed-Zorki 1948 #01537 (1/1000s) - bright paint;
Fed-Zorki 1948 #03827 (1/500s) - crisp paint;
Fed-Zorki 1949 #05042 (1/500s) - crisp paint.
Best Regards,
Aidas
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20110204052729
Thanks Aidas![:)]
All that is most interesting. It seems there are only hypothesis!
- for the 1/500th shutters: the first ones come from Fed, so with bright paint. Very early, KMZ are short with these shutters and must make them by themselves (crisp paint). No problem: there will be after several hundred of thousands cameras which will use that same shutter. And no real problem if there are some rare "bright paint" later: KMZ will have found some spare ones in their cupboards!
- for the 1/1000th shutters: I thought KMZ used all they have from Fed (always bright paint) and didn't make any: no other 1/1000th of that kind later. But the Alexander's camera -serial # 3454, 1/1000th and crisp paint- could show that KMZ did make such shutters. Of course, it would be interesting to know if there are others.
All that to sum up my ideas.[;)]
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: RCCCUK
Replied on: 20110205023239
Just to add confirmation to previous submissions:
FED-Zorki 1948 #02053 (1/1000s) - bright paint
FED-Zorki 1948 #02757 (1/1000s) - bright paint
It would certainly appear that the 1/1000s versions with crisp paint are the rarer version.
David.
Reply author: cedricfan
Replied on: 20110306130952
One more from Finland (not mine):
1949
Serial 05125
Speeds to 1/500
Wrinkled paint
Best regards,
Juhani
