The hole in the FED body plate for slow speeds?
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Printed on: 5/11/2026 6:43:47 PM
Topic
Topic author: uwittehh
Posted on: 20130306180436
Hi,
as we know there are existing very few FEDs with a slow speed mechanism. But I have seen some normal (pre)war FEDs with a hole in the body plate under the top plate that looks like the one that is on a Zorki 3. I want to know which serial numbers we have of FEDs with the hole. Maybe we can make a collection for the Wiki :-)
I start with a FED 1d from 1941 with serial number 156673, lens 189885.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReplies
Reply author: RCCCUK
Replied on: 20130307020709
Hi Ulrich,
Very interesting subject. Is there any chance you could provide a photograph, showing this hole, so that those of us who are unfamiliar with the workings of the slow speed mechanism know what to look for?
David.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130307113354
Hello,
All the Fed 1 I have dismounted, from the 1c, have this hole.
But I am far from having dismounted all my Feds...
It's a hole visible under the cover, which corresponds to the front corner of the cover from 1c-s (1a and b-s have rounded covers).I look for a picture.
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130307114733
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130307142638
Right, this is the hole I mean.
Earlier FEDs don't have that hole, but I don't know from which serial number they have made the hole. So the question is which is the earliest that has this hole :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130307162042
Just have removed the body shell of a FED 1c, no hole, serial number is 102245 (1939).
A FED 1d serial 141639 has a hole. As I know serial 141xxx fells into the year 1940. When were the prototypes of the FED-B made?
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Vlad
Replied on: 20130307170028
You gentlemen are brave brave people, I wouldn't risk taking a cover off a camera that old [:D][:D][:D]
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130308044911
Hi Ulrich,
Your 102xxx should be a 1d, no?
1B are said to be made from the 1c series (55/95xxx range, very roughly)to the 1e one. Alain had one I had in my hand: very probably genuine (serial number in the 1e range, 173xxx). It was tested by Dr Mladek under Xray to verify it.
The first B I know is in the Princelle: s/n 74386. So, a 1c. There are two others in DVD collection:
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/fed/fed.htmOnly 40 samples are said to be made. Not easy to find, but easy to fake with Leica parts...
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130308121629
Jacques,
right, the 102xxx is a 1d.
About the FED B, I wonder a bit about the serial numbers range, 74386 in Princelle and 141xxx at DVD collection. The one with the 4 digits serial number is odd. Could be one of those later ones with 4 digits we know about but have no idea why they have such low serials.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130308121753
Vlad,
it is easier to remove the 10 screws on the body shell instead the top plate. After removing the 10 screws you can slide down the body shell about 1cm which is enough to see if there is a hole.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130308162041
Ulrich,
About the serial number range, we don't know anything.
Certainly, it was difficult to produce Fed B-s with the minimum tolerances which were needed. But I cannot imagine why there are only 40 B-s from 1938 to 1941...
It would have been a flag camera, very useful at this period...
Jacques.
Reply author: Vlad
Replied on: 20130308200044
hmm.. I shall try that when I feel adventurous [:)]. Thanks Ulrich.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130309105625
Thanks for the idea, Ulrich. The ten screws are certainly easier to undo than the cover with the rangefinder and viewfinder. Never thought of that!
Till now, I have only dismounted some Fed S to clean them, never an "ordinary" NKVD. Perhaps all the S-s have this famous hole?
The fist Leica III (F type) were made in 1933. Fed had plenty of time to examine them before 1938, date of the first B. But I agree with you: I don't understand why so little B were made during so long a time.
Jacques.
Reply author: ChrisS
Replied on: 20130310145140
Hi
Interesting topic. Judging by the number of leather cases which were produced with the cutout for the slow speed control (they seem to be quite common), the Fed-B must have originally been meant for regular production. Are we sure only 40 cameras were made? I remember that at one time there were no recorded pre-war Praktiflex cameras in the 10xxx serial range - plenty of 9xxx and 11xxx but no 10xxx. No solutions to this strange mystery. Then I found one - sure they were produced, the accident of non-discovery was the problem. Perhaps crates of Fed-Bs will turn up somewhere in Siberia (maybe???!!!)
ATB Chris
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130313163829
Jacques,
I have only one FED-S (131xxx) but I did not remember if it has the hole :-) I will look at it the next days.
Chris:
Yes, I also have recognized that there are a lot of bags with space for the slow speed mechanism. Maybe they were produced when it was planned to build the FED-B and because of reasons we don't know (war, technical problems, etc.) the FED-B was not built then in bigger numbers.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130314041151
I know these bags too, and I have always one of them, I think.
Planning and normalisation, certainly. And if th B were not finally officially made, it's probably due too to problems of tolerance.
When removing the shoe of Alain's one, I saw some visible differences. Of course, the special spring for slow speeds. But too special nuts (four sides) to regulate the shutters. Never saw on a Fed before, common on the later Zorkis, but not exactly of the same shape.
The shutter crade was made in aluminium, like on the other Fed from s/n 100-110000. What about this crade on early B-s? Made in brass, as it should?
As for a mine of B-s in Siberia, please mail if you have a track!
Ulrich: I have just cleaned my S s/n 164433: it has a hole. Next time: 2 or 3 1c.
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130316110307
Well, I have just checked 3 Fed 1:
- s/n 67723: 1c S;
- s/n 67724: ordinary 1c;
- s/n 76862: 1c S.
No hole on these three cameras.
The first two are interesting: the s/n are consecutive. No difference between these two ones. As for the third one, its serial number is after the first B known (74386 on the JLP).
So, the hole corresponding to the slow speeds can have beeen made by special order. Unless this B is a fake: it is what Alain had said to me!
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130316114922
Last one for today:
The Fed S 1d s/n 157694, lens 2/50mm s/n29044 has a hole.
Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130316121312
Jacques,
FED 1d S 131989, lens 11384 has a hole. Now we need somebody with serial number between my 102245 and my 131989 :-)
And while examining my FEDs I see that I don't have a 1c...
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130316122455
Ulrich,
I have the s/n 104xxx, 119xxx, 127xxx: I do that to morrow or monday.
Perhaps this hole begins with the aluminium shutter box?
Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130316165656
Jacques,
I have found a normal 1d, 115780 that has no hole. And it comes with a bag that has no space for the slow speed dial on the front. So your 119xxx and 127xxx are of interest :-)
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130318111622
The two last Fed 1:
- s/n 119712 (1d S): no hole,
- s/n 127195 (ordinary 1d): hole.
So, it seems the change appears somewhere in the 12xxxx range.
There is no connection with the material of the shutter box (brass or aluminium): the 119xxx has an alu shutterbox, but no hole. And there is no relation either about S or non S: the shutter box are exactly the same, but not the speeds, of course.
Of course, it would be interesting to check with other Fed 1d...
If all that is verified, it could mean that there is no B possible before that range. So, Alain could be right when saying that JLP's B was not genuine...[;)]
Thanks to have put the question, Ulrich!
Amitiés. Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130318171753
Jacques,
hm, (a censored word, haha) :-) I have had one with 122xxx, one with 124xxx and one with 126xxx but they are sold... So maybe another one of us has one FED in this serial number range.
Maybe the one in JLPs book is not genuine but it is also possible that it just has a top plate from an earlier one?
Ulrich
P.S. Winter is not ending here, about 15cm snow the last night and more snow comes tomorrow :-/
http://fotos.cconin.deReply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130320054437
About that one in the JLP, there is the position of the central screw: completely visible. It should not be the case with such a serial number. But there was too something internal, I cannot remember what.
Very happy you didn't feel obliged to put a question about -let us say- the possible markings behind the press film, Ulrich. So, thanks! [:D]
Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130320150557
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130325093042
[:D]
But the story is not finished...
Yesterday, I cleaned a Fed 1f. And I discovered that its shutter box did not have this famous hole.
S/n of this 1f: 285063
Jacques.
Reply author: Jacques M.
Replied on: 20130325131432
To day, my Fed NKAP "Red Flag", serial # 200209. It has a hole too.
The rear face of the shutter box is not painted, rather varnished. And the whole mechanism is far from new: wear by film transport is evident. All that looks genuine...
That was my last checking. But I would not swear it...
Jacques.
Reply author: uwittehh
Replied on: 20130325170418
Jacques,
I have a 288xxx that also has no hole. About not rear face painted FEDs, I have seen some, through all serial numbers. I also wondered why they are not painted. But on some early Zorki 1 I have seen unpainted rear shutters too.
Ulrich
http://fotos.cconin.de