The hole in the FED body plate for slow speeds?

Hi,

as we know there are existing very few FEDs with a slow speed mechanism. But I have seen some normal (pre)war FEDs with a hole in the body plate under the top plate that looks like the one that is on a Zorki 3. I want to know which serial numbers we have of FEDs with the hole. Maybe we can make a collection for the Wiki :-)

I start with a FED 1d from 1941 with serial number 156673, lens 189885.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Hi Ulrich,

Very interesting subject. Is there any chance you could provide a photograph, showing this hole, so that those of us who are unfamiliar with the workings of the slow speed mechanism know what to look for?

David.

Hello,

All the Fed 1 I have dismounted, from the 1c, have this hole.
But I am far from having dismounted all my Feds...

It's a hole visible under the cover, which corresponds to the front corner of the cover from 1c-s (1a and b-s have rounded covers).I look for a picture.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2892012_P9100989.JPG

Here is a picture made by Zhang (thanks!) the 28th sept 2012 (in "Just arrived in my collection").
The hole is just near the "B".

Jacques.

Right, this is the hole I mean.

Earlier FEDs don't have that hole, but I don't know from which serial number they have made the hole. So the question is which is the earliest that has this hole :-)

Ulrich


http://fotos.cconin.de

Just have removed the body shell of a FED 1c, no hole, serial number is 102245 (1939).

A FED 1d serial 141639 has a hole. As I know serial 141xxx fells into the year 1940. When were the prototypes of the FED-B made?

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

You gentlemen are brave brave people, I wouldn't risk taking a cover off a camera that old

Hi Ulrich,

Your 102xxx should be a 1d, no?

1B are said to be made from the 1c series (55/95xxx range, very roughly)to the 1e one. Alain had one I had in my hand: very probably genuine (serial number in the 1e range, 173xxx). It was tested by Dr Mladek under Xray to verify it.

The first B I know is in the Princelle: s/n 74386. So, a 1c. There are two others in DVD collection:
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/fed/fed.htm

Only 40 samples are said to be made. Not easy to find, but easy to fake with Leica parts...

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Jacques,

right, the 102xxx is a 1d.
About the FED B, I wonder a bit about the serial numbers range, 74386 in Princelle and 141xxx at DVD collection. The one with the 4 digits serial number is odd. Could be one of those later ones with 4 digits we know about but have no idea why they have such low serials.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Vlad,

it is easier to remove the 10 screws on the body shell instead the top plate. After removing the 10 screws you can slide down the body shell about 1cm which is enough to see if there is a hole.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Ulrich,

About the serial number range, we don't know anything.
Certainly, it was difficult to produce Fed B-s with the minimum tolerances which were needed. But I cannot imagine why there are only 40 B-s from 1938 to 1941...
It would have been a flag camera, very useful at this period...

Jacques.

hmm.. I shall try that when I feel adventurous . Thanks Ulrich.

Thanks for the idea, Ulrich. The ten screws are certainly easier to undo than the cover with the rangefinder and viewfinder. Never thought of that!

Till now, I have only dismounted some Fed S to clean them, never an "ordinary" NKVD. Perhaps all the S-s have this famous hole?

The fist Leica III (F type) were made in 1933. Fed had plenty of time to examine them before 1938, date of the first B. But I agree with you: I don't understand why so little B were made during so long a time.

Jacques.

Hi

Interesting topic. Judging by the number of leather cases which were produced with the cutout for the slow speed control (they seem to be quite common), the Fed-B must have originally been meant for regular production. Are we sure only 40 cameras were made? I remember that at one time there were no recorded pre-war Praktiflex cameras in the 10xxx serial range - plenty of 9xxx and 11xxx but no 10xxx. No solutions to this strange mystery. Then I found one - sure they were produced, the accident of non-discovery was the problem. Perhaps crates of Fed-Bs will turn up somewhere in Siberia (maybe???!!!)

ATB Chris

Jacques,

I have only one FED-S (131xxx) but I did not remember if it has the hole :-) I will look at it the next days.

Chris:

Yes, I also have recognized that there are a lot of bags with space for the slow speed mechanism. Maybe they were produced when it was planned to build the FED-B and because of reasons we don't know (war, technical problems, etc.) the FED-B was not built then in bigger numbers.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

I know these bags too, and I have always one of them, I think.
Planning and normalisation, certainly. And if th B were not finally officially made, it's probably due too to problems of tolerance.

When removing the shoe of Alain's one, I saw some visible differences. Of course, the special spring for slow speeds. But too special nuts (four sides) to regulate the shutters. Never saw on a Fed before, common on the later Zorkis, but not exactly of the same shape.

The shutter crade was made in aluminium, like on the other Fed from s/n 100-110000. What about this crade on early B-s? Made in brass, as it should?

As for a mine of B-s in Siberia, please mail if you have a track!

Ulrich: I have just cleaned my S s/n 164433: it has a hole. Next time: 2 or 3 1c.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Well, I have just checked 3 Fed 1:
- s/n 67723: 1c S;
- s/n 67724: ordinary 1c;
- s/n 76862: 1c S.

No hole on these three cameras.
The first two are interesting: the s/n are consecutive. No difference between these two ones. As for the third one, its serial number is after the first B known (74386 on the JLP).

So, the hole corresponding to the slow speeds can have beeen made by special order. Unless this B is a fake: it is what Alain had said to me!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Last one for today:
The Fed S 1d s/n 157694, lens 2/50mm s/n29044 has a hole.

Jacques.

Jacques,

FED 1d S 131989, lens 11384 has a hole. Now we need somebody with serial number between my 102245 and my 131989 :-)

And while examining my FEDs I see that I don't have a 1c...

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Ulrich,
I have the s/n 104xxx, 119xxx, 127xxx: I do that to morrow or monday.
Perhaps this hole begins with the aluminium shutter box?

Jacques.

Jacques,

I have found a normal 1d, 115780 that has no hole. And it comes with a bag that has no space for the slow speed dial on the front. So your 119xxx and 127xxx are of interest :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de