First soviet camera to buy?

I live in post-soviet block, and have a wide variety of cameras to choose from. I'm relatively inexperienced with this stuff, and hoping I'll get an answer here.
Which camera would you recommend from quality and ease of use perspective?
Price is (for the most part) not a problem.
Right now my two main choices are different models of Zorki's (4 being more prevalent.) and Fed's (2 being more prevalent.). And a couple of Moskva 4's and 5's. Although they're a bit more pricey.
I'll get a Smena 8M aswell, because I can get it for the price of a pack of cigarettes.

Maybe there's a thread about this already, but my forum knowledge is pretty limited. I apologize if this is not in the right place.
Thanks in advance,
Alan.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/1322016_1_9_32142477.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1322016_1_9_32142477.jpg

This seems to be one of the better presented options right now, and someone suggested, that a FED is a great place to start. Could anyone confirm that?

The Fed 2 is a bit more basic and foolproof. Although the Fed 3 is recommendable too. It's ok to start with a Fed 3!

I always recommend beginners tot start with a Zenit E as a mirror reflex camera. Because it is basic and lacks all kinds of automatic features. Which forces you to learn photography yourself, and the proces behind it. The camera is basic, yet expendable because its M42 mount.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Valkir1987</i>
<br />The Fed 2 is a bit more basic and foolproof. Although the Fed 3 is recommendable too. It's ok to start with a Fed 3!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thank you for your feedback.
I'm liking the FED-3 on the picture, because it comes with extra gear. I get it for around 20-25 euros, so if I'll struggle with it too much, it won't be that big of a loss (I could also resell it)
Thank you, I was just wondering if something like this is a big no-no, but if it's fine, then I'll take it.

A FED-3 is also OK. But take notice cocking the shutter first before turning the shutter speeds.
Camera's <i>without the slow speed</i> options you can not make this fatal mistake. (FED-2, Zorki-6, MIR)

This is my FED-3 (with a J-12) refurbished by Milo. It is in perfect condition now but I suppose it was a lot of work.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7561/16001005700_b58d708859_z.jpg

Here a photo with that Jupiter-12 lens:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7324/16480336101_7a16ba03a8_z.jpg

TMY-2 (Kodak) in HC-110(B).

And with the standard lens: I-61 Zebra.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7581/15892483648_564631e650_z.jpg

Bergger BRF400+ / OrWo Filmotec N74+ in HC-110(B).

Indeed in former Post Sovjet countries the cameras and lenses can be very cheap. For medium format you could look at a Kiev-6C or Kiev-60 with Pentacon-Six bayonet. You can even fit the DDR Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon, Biometar or Sonnar on it. But they are heavy.

I can also recommend the Kiev-2/3/4 range finders or the Zorki-6.

Well I have a lot of RF cameras (all in use):

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7670/16949904658_242bfab656_z.jpg

Here another shot with my Jupiter-9 fitting on the Zorki-6 and universal V.F. (Turret). F/2,0-85mm, also a great lens.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/777/23238813953_c4d0067510_z.jpg

The Jupiter lenses are pre-war Zeiss copies so they preform very well if you can live with the a bit less coating on the lenses (You can see less contrast and flair in front light) so here you must always use a sun hood.
To be honest: My FSU gear is not much less then my Leica M7 + Leica glass. These lenses are a bit better but 100x more expensive. However the M7 is very fast working in AE mode and build in frames for the different lenses.





Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

Thank you for feedback!
Zorki was my second choice, and looks like that's what I'll have to aim at for ease of use. As I understand Jupiter lenses are not stock for Zorki, that being said, there's a small auction going for a decent Zorki 6 with Jupiter 8 2/50 lens. I'm keeping a close eye on that. (ends in 7 hours as i'm typing this.)
There's a person selling 4 lenses in a bunch: Jupiter-37A, Helios-44-2 , Helios.44M and a I61 L/D. Is there any point in acquiring these as a beginner, or should I just roll with what I get with the camera?
I mention this, because my experience with older cameras is pretty much zero, I don't really know what to expect of it.
Sorry for rambling, but this is a new and exciting realm for me!
Thank you for your patience.

Well, how older how better. In Kiev-2/3 the best were made between 1949 and 1953 with original Contax parts.
A Zorki-6 is very good, I have two of them. One from Fedka and one directly from Ukraine, 1963 and 1965 models. However these cameras need maintenance which I do for simple lenses myself, for the cameras Milo or an address I have in Odessa. For medium format cameras you can address Arax in Kiev. Sometimes I have an offer from photo friends or family in Ukraine. As you already mentioned in Post Sovjetic countries it is only a few $$. My last Z-6 with I-50 was over 50 years just sitting in a box .... The Green Sovjet grease had stuck the whole camera and lens. Also here Milo did a great job for me. If you like a range finder system they are great cameras, simple in handling and they can be equipped with great lenses: J-3, J-8, J-12, J-9, J-11, I-61, I-50, Orion, Russar. A turret finder will cover: 28-35-50-85-135mm. Lomography is offering their plus versions (new made by Zenit) of the Russar F/5,6-20mm and J-3 F/1,5-50mm however their price is €600,00.

My two Z-6, here with I-50 and J-8:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5651/21894612744_5d1091605d_z.jpg

Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

Here a shot with my Kiev-4AM and J-8M. Contax/Kiev bayonet they have instead of the mentioned other cameras with LTM (Leica Thread Mount, M39).

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/571/22416943723_c9fa3dea7c_z.jpg

<i>Kodak 5222 Double-X</i> film E.I. 100 and developed in <i>Hans Windisch W665</i> <u>ultra fine grain</u> developer.

If you are bulk loading with cine 35mm film the price of film is going down to approx. € 1/m - €1,30/m.

Fomapan, Kodak 5222 XX or OrWo Filmotec UN54 or N74+ are films with good preformance and relative cheap to become in Europe however the price of XX has be gone higher due to the rising US$ against Euro the last two years from 1:1,45 to 1:1,05 now.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5823/20889478734_ea34e67081_n.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/555/20077458982_22ca09e008_n.jpg

In development if making your chemicals yourself it is very cheap too and you do not have to keep liquid material on stock running out of date.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5751/23671809510_a4fd2f6cd0.jpg

CT-2 (ST-2) Svema receipt, in fact an Ansco/Agfa/OrWo copy. Often published in the Svema Foto box.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/622/21980151490_42e878c70a.jpg

Sometimes you can also find cheap N.O.S. <i>Svema in bulk</i> in a lot of Post Sovjetic countries for very small money. In a low iso rate or GOST, when they are stocked in not too bad condition it can be pretty good. Look for <i>iso 100 films or less</i>. 35mm double perforated.

In this way a hobby in analogue photography can be very cheap and effective.





Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

Foma <i>Retropan 320 Soft</i>, a low contrast Retro film with a lot of grain.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/535/20215776072_915d539185_z.jpg

Zorki-6 + I-50 (F/3,5-50mm).

In fact this Retro film from Foma is the most expensive one at the moment but still cheap.

The cheapest and most easy Fomapan film is the <i>Fomapan 100</i>. A real classical cubical type emulsion doing very well in <i>R09/Rodinal</i> 1+50 with a little bit speed loss, expose on E.I. 80 then with this para- Amino Phenol type developer. It is also one of the most cheapest commercial developers you can get. It has a long life span too: About 5 years, the original Agfa Rodinal had an almost unlimited life span.
Good combination.



Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

The Fomapan 200 is a mix between cubical and hexagonal Silver crystals. The emulsion is also the softest of the Fomapan films so take extra care in development.

Good combinations are possible in R09/Rodinal or Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27 the last developer is an Xtol copy. Normally used in 1+1.

Here some examples of the Fomapan 200 film:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8515/8592769790_9014d510be_z.jpg

35mm in Xtol 1+1, J-8 lens, wide open, F/2,0.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8205/8235147208_b47d01b928_z.jpg

6x7cm roll film. R09/Rodinal 1+50. Of course a typical Ukraine shot now. My spare "car" ..... just in case. [:D]

Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up on films, very informative. I'll be looking into cheap bulk film and also check though second hand shops and sites for older films.
I'm not 100% sure on what camera/lens to go with, but it seems like I'm buying the Zorki 6 with Jupiter 8 lens, and I'm pretty happy about it!

You can not go wrong with a Z-6 and J-8 for starting!



Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

If you buy from aukro.ua or newauction.ru, I would look for a Zorki-C or 2C. They are so cheap and easy to maintain. I wouldn't choose a Zorki-4.
Fed-2 is nice too and easy to use with the back door and a much better feeling than Fed-3.
Smena, I would look for a Smena-1 with 4 silver screws on the front. That is really quality and a much better feeling in the hands than 8M.

Whatever your first camera is it will not be the least.

I lost the auction on that Z-6 with Jupiter lens, now on the lookout for something else.

I contacted my father, and turns out he has a Zenit E.
I might just use that for starters, as Milo Schekkerman recommended it.

What's people's opinion on Moskva 4's and 5's? They're a bit more pricey, but a Moskva was the reason I got interested in older photography. ( Something about the look that just got me.)

They are folder camera's so prone for damage. In 2009 I had the choice for a Plaubel Makina 67 (refurbished by Plaubel) or a new Cosina Voigtländer Bessa III 667.
For me the price of both cameras in 2009 were the same, Eur. 1300,00 a lot of money for an analogue folder camera but I made the choice for the (new) Bessa III 667 with 6x6cm and 6x7cm 120/220 possibility due to modern technique of flatcable etc. which was a weak point of the Paubel Makina because at that time era there was no flat cable technology. Further I had advantage of the latest coating technology instead of the older Nikkor F/2,8 technology, now a state of the art Fuji/Hasselblad coatings, o.k. F/3,5-80mm.

So when buying older cameras you can better look at rigid type, full metal cameras and lenses. Of course only MY opinion. :)

Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

I got my Zenit-E
It's in near mint condition, my father said he only did two filmrolls worth of pictures with it. It did sit in a slightly damp place for a good 15 years. It looks completely ok, has that damp/moldy smell though. I'll be cleaning it up soon, only fiddled around with it today. I seem to have figured out all the controls on it aswell. I also have the Chaika flash with it.
Should I get a new lens on it (it has the Industar-50 on it), or am I good to go?

If the Zenit E is fully working, put a cheap film through it and check for light leaks.

The Industar 50 (pancake) is a very good lens and if you can handle the settings easily I would keep it. I had one but found it a bit too compact for my clumsy hands !

Good luck with the Zenit.

Will.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If the Zenit E is fully working, put a cheap film through it and check for light leaks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A good suggestion. Have fun with the Zenit!

Robert
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="MS Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hekatian</i>
<br />
What's people's opinion on Moskva 4's and 5's? They're a bit more pricey, but a Moskva was the reason I got interested in older photography. ( Something about the look that just got me.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I became interested in Moskva-5 once too, but didn't buy one. I like the small Ikontas with 6x4.5cm frame, they are even smaller than a Zorki-C. Unfortunately there is no small Russian camera with this format.

But for starting photography a Zenit-E is not bad. Try to keep the camera in a dark place, it will rest the selenium cell if it's still working.

The selenium cell is bust and repairing that is beyond me, so I'll just get a separate light meter, there's plenty of them around.
I will be getting a folder camera in near future. Aesthetically, they're just so much more pleasing to me.
On another subject: There is this fantastic looking Sputnik diaprojector on a local auction. Sold as ''like new'' (Original box and extra gear, even has the original flanel cloth for wiping the lens. )

http://www.ussrphoto.com/resize/resize_image.aspx?ImgWd=800&IptFl=/UserContent/1722016_1_1_28651355.jpg

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1722016_1_1_28651355.jpg

Now that I'm getting into this stuff, finding these gems is very satisfying!
I'd like to thank everyone for their feedback, you've been incredibly helpful.