Introducing myself and brown FED 1b from 1935

Hello Jacques and Ulrich,

Here are two close-up photos of FED-1 12820. In the first you can see the darkness near the lens. This is not dirt and will not come off. In both photos you can see the darkness in the crevices of the vulcanite. It is also not dirt and does not come off. In the second photo you can see the larger black carbon particles that did not oxidize and still are visible as black specks.

The third photo shows three FED-1 cameras from around serial numbers 19,000. You can see the three different amounts of aging to the vulcanite, even though this is a different texture than the earlier smoother type we have been talking about.

This kind of aging of vulcanite, where it turns to brown is very common on Leicas (as Jacques said about his) and other cameras that have certain early vulcanites, as well. If you do a search on Google for "leica + vulcanite" or "vulcanite + brown" you will see many references to this aging which is caused by ultra-violet exposure, heat, and general oxidation of the rubber compound that is made black with carbon particles. If you search "vulcanite" you can find out a lot about the material. Even things like pipe stems for smoking pipes made of vulcanite change to this exact same color.

So, I would say, yes, there are brown FED-1 cameras, but they were not brown when they were made, but change color, many times very evenly because it is not due to wear or handling (athough those things can be seen on the surface too), but to exposure to the atmospheric conditions. Us FED collectors are not the only ones who see this and it is a big topic of discussion with Leica collectors.







Regards, Bill

Hello Bill and Ulrich,

Most interesting, I think!

A general remark first: the vulcanites of Fed and Leica seem quite different. The last ones are often softer and not far from leather, the first ones are generally (but not always) closer to plastic. But (with exceptions) they all were made in vulcanized rubber.

As for the 12xxx Fed vulcanite, I can only say that mine (and Ulrich's) doesn't have those traces. Two possible explanations: ours were cleaned (I don't think so on lookink closely at mine). Or maybe yours could have too been redyed with a bad tincture and what we see around the lens plate would be some rests of tincture and not dirt ?(or perhaps the two??).

As for your three Fed, probably the last one only has a # near 19xxx. The two other ones have coarse knurled knobs which can be seen only after 26xxx-29xxx after Fricke. I don't see well but I wonder if the second one wouldn't be what I call a dark green one.

For me, there are at least five different sorts of vulcanites:
- a rough black one (Fed a and b, up to c12xxx?),
- a fine one (black or brown? from 12 to 15-16xxx?),
- a fine black granulated one (my 20251),
- a fine green granulated one, but with different patterns (my 54223, Alain's 12760, 16401 and 52953),
- a rougher black one afterwards. My bodies with that rough vulcanite are very often marked with age and using.
All that only up to c100000. I don't count the other 1a ones that I don't know the vulcanite and I didn't verify after that serial number. All these five vulcanites have different patterns, whatever the colour can be.

It's all I can say. Sorry not to be more precise: I cannot show my cameras: no numerics! And it is difficult to compare the colours: the lightings are not the same...

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hello,

I have made some closeups too.
The first one is the 1935 FED. As you can see there is no black colour on the surface of the vulcanite close to the edge of the lens mount. In the deepenings between the surfaces there is seen some dark colour or maybe dirt close to the lens mount but only very little farer away from the lens mount on the right side of the pic.

http://fotos.cconin.de/ussrphoto/fedbrown04.jpg

The second photo shows the 1934 Leica, there you can see the dark colour on the surface of the vulcanite near the lens mount so the black colour only weares off over the years, I think.

http://fotos.cconin.de/ussrphoto/leicabrown01.jpg

So, noone can really say if brown FEDs have existed, but it's most interesting :-)

Ulrich


http://fotos.cconin.de

Hello Jacques,

You are right, the last FED is a little earlier than the first two in the photos, but my idea was to show the variations. I agree about the variations in the Vulcanite coverings. It is an interesting study and I would wonder where the Vulcanite came from. For example, did the Dzerjinski Commune have a way of manufacturing it (sometimes?) or was it bought from another factory (I think more likely). So maybe the texture of the covering changed as the Vulcanite factory changed what it offered, and probably different formulas or variations in processes also.

I will not talk about the colors anymore, after this, as it would really take a chemist to say what happens to this material over time (or if it never changes it's color and is stable), but I would just say that there are many observations on the internet (about Leicas and Feds, and other things made of black vulcanite) about many variations in color that seem to occur with time and exposure. Almost all materials change in some way with age and it is my understanding that Vulcanite is not very stable, either in color of elasticity (gets brittle).

I think it too easy to say that anytime black shows up on a part of one of these that it is dyed or colored. In that case maybe all FEDs were originally brown, but have been dyed. This same brown - green can also be seen on a certain covering "pebble finish" on FED-Zorki cameras and some early Zorki cameras, as well as on some early Zenit-1 cameras. They can all also become brown, or berown with a slight greenish tint (you are correct Jacques that the color does depend on the lighting).

It is an interesting study indeed and I will watch for more examples of this fine textured Vulcanite that we have been discussing.

Regards, Bill

Hi Ulrich,

Thanks for the close-up photos. I can see, in your close-up of the FED, some of the same small black specks (look closely) which I believe are some of the larger carbon particles used for coloring the vulcanite and which were too large to fully oxidize (so far). Also, I can see more darkness in the crevices next to the lens mount than further away (look closely) so the overall appearance on your camera's surface is slightly darker near the lens mount.

The photo of the Leica looks very much like the close-up of my FED. I believe it is the same situation on both Leica and FED on some of these vulcanites used during the period.

Personally, I just don't think FED was thinking of coloring their cameras anything but black at this early period.

Regards, Bill

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your very professional and friendly answer.
I totally agree with you: probably vulcanites were not made by Fed which would explain the differences. Another puzzle (for me): the lack of an accessory clip on 1a and early 1b could perhaps be explained in this way ?

After having seen the close ups of Ulrich's Fed 1, I must admit that you are right: mine was certainly cleaned.
I am much accustomed to look at small mechanical details which distinguish some sub series: a missing screw or an aluminium cradle. So it's wonderful to learn what one doesn't know through this site.

So, thanks to Vlad, and again to you!
Amitiйs. Jacques.
PS: By the way, I would be interested to know the # of your second Fed on the picture? It looks some "green" ones I saw.

Hello Jacques,

I think there is no accessory shoe on the earliest FED cameras because they did not have accessories available, that were made by FED, at that time. At some time during 1935 (the second year of production), it was probably realized that some photographers were using Leica lenses on their FEDs and needed the accessory shoe to put a viewfinder on to. This probably led to the idea of producing the other accesories in 1937-38 ... 28mm lens, macro lens, 100mm lens, finders for these lenses, self-timer, right angle finder, etc.

In the beginning, the production of the FED by the young Communards (not children, but aged 15-20 according to Oscar Fricke) was difficult and almost everything was made by hand on machines, so it would have been much more work and time to make the accessory shoe, and they were trying to produce as many as possible as there was a great demand for the new Russian Leica.

Jacques, the FED in the center of the three, which is the lightest in color, is actually one of those starngely numbered cameras that we were discussing on another thread. The serial number is "No.417", but the camera has all of the characteristics of a FED from 1936 (between serial no.s 19,000 and 30,000). So, I'm sorry I can't be more precise about the serial number. I have noticed too that this texture of vulcanite can age to a greener color than some others which can look browner.

Regards, Bill

Hi Bill.
My guess too was that they were lacking machines to produce these clips.
A fair number of 1a were equipped with clips afterwards which is regrettable for us!
Thanks for the number of your Fed 1b of which I remember.

Amitiйs. Jacques.