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BERRY alain
mermoz37

France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 05 2010 :  11:09:03 AM  Show Profile
note :
a "no-name" factory design Lubitel (black front paint whith original rivets) may be to be silk screen rebadged in export or just for International exibition ? (never used)
and an original Kristall whithout usual hammered grey enamel.Seem to be factory made like this : soft matt aluminium (whithout any scratches or cracks)...I can confirm never painted.
serial number : 61018045
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/512010_IMG_5725.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/512010_IMG_5720.JPG

Richard Nuttall
Poolhall
United Kingdom
163 Posts
Posted - Jan 05 2010 :  2:23:53 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Poolhall's MSN Messenger address
Good finds Alain I have heard of non painted Krystall before -I wonder if they were done at the end of production? Maybe when the factory realised the painted finish was not popular? Or maybe they had no paint that day! I say this because I have had 2 different Krystalls one had a greenish primer paint under the hammered finish and one didn't, just the hammered paint, suppose anything is possible if supplies are not there and production numbers have to be kept up

Samsung GX-10,too many Russian Lenses, A lot of Zenits, an Almaz 103 a few Yashica,and finally a Minox35GT
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Michel
France
217 Posts
Posted - Jan 05 2010 :  4:14:57 PM  Show Profile
Congratulations, Mr. Berry for these two superb finds !!
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 05 2010 :  8:59:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Guido's Homepage
Hello Alain

For the Krystall I can confirm the existence of this variant. Alexander Schulz showed one in his book "Zenit" from 2003 with the s/n 61021914. When I talked to him about this item he said that he had only found this one and never seen an other later.

Also Alexandr on www.fotoua.com shows one of them at this link:

http://fotoua.com/1cameratip.php?seek2=143&seek1=140&usl=&usl1=&seek3=2&rd=4&st=7

He writes that the s/n observed goes from 61017708 to 62032739. The rarity code "R4" shows that's a uncommon camera.

Aidas shows one of them with s/n 62009728 at:

http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1040184497

(well, maybe it's not exactly the same type of camera or just a variation of it?)

In the book "1200 cameras" you can find one of this kind on page 136 (or has it a chroming like the earlier Kristall 2 prototypes from 1960?). I can't read the text ... :-/

After all it's a very nice camera, one of the ones I like the most in the Zenit collection.

Best wishes - Guido
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 05 2010 :  10:31:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage
Hello Alain,

Very nice finds you have there! Nice way to start the year!

Regards, Bill

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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 06 2010 :  05:35:10 AM  Show Profile
thanks friends for vey informative comments !
So, what can you tell about Lubitel ?
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Jan 06 2010 :  07:44:14 AM  Show Profile

Just arrived in your collection, but only for the moment, Alain, if I understand well?
Nothing really interesting to say about your Lubitel. But it's the first time I see a non hammered Krystall... Thanks!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 06 2010 :  09:04:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/612010_LiliputIIred.JPG

My latest investment



Best regards,
Juhani
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 06 2010 :  09:17:43 AM  Show Profile
Hi Juani...
well done : a real rarity !
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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Jan 06 2010 :  10:59:02 AM  Show Profile
Question about Kristal: is top of the camera made from stamped aluminum or it pressure molded as on all Kristals?
Juhani - good way to start a New Year!!!!
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  02:19:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage
Dear Alain,

congratulations on you new findings!!! Both cameras are great, but I would like to say few words about your NO-NAME Lubitel ... I have an information in my archives, that a limited quantity of No-name Lubitels with new LOMO logo on the lens were intended for foreign distributor indeed. I was lucky to see a camera, identical to yours, but with additional nameplate plaque fixed in the blank place. The particular camera had name "LUNA" and were intended for Greece (???) market ...

... but if I could vote for all cameras shown here, my vote goes for Juhani's Liliput obviously ...

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  02:25:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage
... knowing, that many members here are the honest Smena camera lovers, let me show you an interesting variation of early Smena-8M camera below ...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712010_SM-8M_1.JPG

Best Regards,
Aidas

Edited by - AidasCams on Jan 07 2010 02:26:34 AM
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  04:50:26 AM  Show Profile
dear Okinek : my opinion (I am not a metal work specialist ) it is a die cast aluminium made.
dear Aidas : thanks a lot (as usual !) for information....it will be nice if you can find a picture of "Luna" camera brand (but I think quite impossible now...?)

Alain
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  08:35:44 AM  Show Profile

My very last is a Fed 1b first serie, without clip.
Not exceptional, but I was looking for for at least 2 years...
And it has an interesting one turn lens.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712010_

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  09:11:05 AM  Show Profile

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712010_Fed 1b 1ère série 002.jpg

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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  09:28:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
quote:

... but if I could vote for all cameras shown here, my vote goes for Juhani's Liliput obviously ...


Just waiting to see an even more interesting camera here soon

Best regards,
Juhani
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  09:38:20 AM  Show Profile

If it's a vote, no doubt, mine is for Juhani's camera too!
Those coloured Lilliput are pure marvels!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  09:43:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37

dear Okinek : my opinion (I am not a metal work specialist ) it is a die cast aluminium made.
dear Aidas : thanks a lot (as usual !) for information....it will be nice if you can find a picture of "Luna" camera brand (but I think quite impossible now...?)

Alain



Alain,

everything is possible in behalf of good friends ... Below you will find a picture of Luna-Lubitel, sent to me by camera collector from Greece some time ago ...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712010_lubitel-luna.jpg

Best Regards,
Aidas
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Aidas Pikiotas
AidasCams
Lithuania
973 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  10:01:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit AidasCams's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by cedricfan


Just waiting to see an even more interesting camera here soon

Best regards,
Juhani



Hi Juhani,

may be your beutiful Liliput is waiting for elder brother Liliput?


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/712010_Liliput_brown_early2.JPG

Best regards,
Aidas
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  10:16:12 AM  Show Profile
nothing impossible for you ...damned Aidas !!!
So thanks a lot !
Alain
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  10:48:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Just what I waited to see here, the brother! Somehow I knew that you would surprise us

Best regards,
Juhani
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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Jan 07 2010 :  2:48:31 PM  Show Profile
Thank you Alain for answer!
I was hoping that top of chrome Kristall made same way as on Zenit 3 - by stamping. I have my theory how Kristall was born. May be some day I'll post it.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 08 2010 :  04:16:25 AM  Show Profile
okynek ....yes , please tell me now your theory ...even if it is a fantasy ;-) which one can say vodka effects on soviets engineers
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okynek
759 Posts
Posted - Jan 22 2010 :  4:03:25 PM  Show Profile
There are my thoughts, which are not backed up by any paperwork, as I know.
I think that Kristall, as Mir-Zorki4, and Zarya-FED2, was mean to be a cheap version of mainstream camera Zenit 3M.
Zenit 3M I think was intended to have lighmeter and slow speeds. All this in 1962.
But manufacturing problems did not let this materialize. And after year or so, KMZ gives up and rename Kristall to Zenit 3M.
Arguments for this theory are camera itself. Look how it constricted; it has special room for lightmeter and for slow speed gears.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 25 2010 :  10:03:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2512010_Liliput2.jpg

One more Liliput, and my Maliutka will arrive in the end of this week

Last week I finally bought my first Sniper:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2812010_Photosniper1.JPG

Some filters are missing but otherwise a good kit and a nice price of 71 euros totally.


Best regards,
Juhani




Edited by - cedricfan on Jan 28 2010 1:53:46 PM
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Jan 25 2010 :  11:16:37 AM  Show Profile
congratulation Juani ....good hunter diploma !!!
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Jan 28 2010 :  12:50:17 PM  Show Profile
Hello,

I have found a red Liliput, but the price for the camera is too high (I think so). How much must cost this camera today?



Regards, Alexander
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Jan 28 2010 :  1:55:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
My collection is now getting smaller:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2812010_Maliutka1.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2812010_Maliutka2.JPG

And personally I would not pay more than 150 euros for a Liliput, but it is only my opinion...

Best regards,
Juhani
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Feb 11 2010 :  03:49:22 AM  Show Profile
The latest addition to my collection is this KMZ PS-2 which I found at a London dealers. It's a 1944 model, complete with its four cassettes and orange filter. Unfortunately it is missing its lens hood and lens cap, so I am on the search for replacements.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1122010_FS-2b.jpg
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1122010_FS-2a.jpg



David

(http://www.rcccuk.com)
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Feb 18 2010 :  2:37:43 PM  Show Profile
I have got it!!! Yes!!! It is the early soviet plate camera ARFO-Komsomoletz (Nr.02121) in great condition with ARFO leather case and plates! According to the SSK book it ist 2nd release with ARFO-lens.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1822010_IMG_3471.JPG


Regards, Alexander
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Feb 19 2010 :  4:53:29 PM  Show Profile
David,

What a wonderful find !
It looks to be in beautiful shape.
Good luck in tracking down the few items to complete it.

Congratulations !!

Steve
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Feb 19 2010 :  4:54:08 PM  Show Profile
David,

What a wonderful find !
It looks to be in beautiful shape.
Good luck in tracking down the few items to complete it.

Congratulations !!

Steve
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 19 2010 :  5:07:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
David,

I think this is a really rare find. I have never seen a FED-Sniper before.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 20 2010 :  09:21:26 AM  Show Profile

Hi David,
Really a marvelous item. In fact the dream of most of us!
It seems as if the serial number of the body is between c. 40000 and 60000? A late 1b or an early 1c?

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Feb 20 2010 :  09:33:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Alexander, that's a super rare camera - congratulations!

And David - WOW! You found the holy grail! This piece really culminates a collecting career! Bravo!

Cheers,
Vlad
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David Tomlinson
RCCCUK
United Kingdom
208 Posts
Posted - Feb 20 2010 :  09:39:26 AM  Show Profile
Hi Jacques,

The FED body is a late 1b, which surprises me. I would have expected it to be a 1c or even a 1d as the outfit was manufactured in 1944. It is possible that this is not the original FED, as it would be quite easy to swap the mounting plate. On the other hand, maybe KMZ took over the remaining stock of cameras, parts and lenses from GOI.



David

(http://www.rcccuk.com)
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Feb 21 2010 :  09:53:09 AM  Show Profile

Hi David,

I have in my datas the FS2 serial number 1200 (made in 1944), body number 61557. So an early 1c with 1/1000th, that time.
It was sold by Westlicht auction (auction n° 6).

Probably KMZ were using what they found, including spare parts, to mount these items. Certainly it was not easy to find brand new Fed 1 in 1944!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  07:14:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Yesterday it was again time for the finnish collectors fair in Helsinki:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Z122popeda.JPG

A brand new Popeda 122 serial 95074033


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Z3m50y.JPG

A mint 50y 3m with printed texts, with the KMZ-prism logo front, serial 67044888 and lens 0368845


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_DSCF1610.JPG

The original Smena, finally!


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_FED_5890.JPG

A fully working FED serial 5890, also something that I have been wanting for a long long time!

Those I bought

Best regards,
Juhani
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  07:20:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
These I didn't buy, please look closely to the background cameras also


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_ApoTeleZenitar2.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_FedS.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Labo.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Sport.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Volna10.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_Zenit7.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/732010_RevueHorizon.JPG



Best regards,
Juhani
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  07:37:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
Juhani,

congratulations, nice, specially the FED 1 one. It's only 9 numbers away from mine, take a look:

http://fotos.cconin.de/kameras/fed1.htm#fed1ac

Why didn't you by the sport or the FED S? What were the prices at the collectors fair in Helsinki?

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  09:31:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Wow nice loot, Juhani!! Congrats! Is that Smena repaired or this metal bar supposed to be there?

..off to Chicago camera fair now, maybe I'll find me some interesting things.. doubt it though
Vlad
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  10:22:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by uwittehh
...FED 1 one. It's only 9 numbers away from mine...

Ha, in time we will have so many near numbers collected here that it is easier to count the missing ones

quote:
Originally posted by uwittehh
Why didn't you by the sport or the FED S? What were the prices at the collectors fair in Helsinki?


Wallet... the prices were reasonable for such rarities, but a huge pile of money though

quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Is that Smena repaired or this metal bar supposed to be there?

I can not see anything wrong comparing to Aidas website, other than using a Zenit battery tube as "foot". I didn't notice that the camera itseöf has a clevery hidden foot

Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  12:44:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Juhani, sorry I thought that metal piece on front was a repair job, but now I see that's just a part of a camera I don't have one so I'm not very familiar with these cameras..

Zenit-122 Pobeda - why is it that they all are found in Finland?

Vlad
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  12:45:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Zenit-122 Pobeda - why is it that they all are found in Finland?


Vodka tourists visiting Leningrad

Best regards,
Juhani
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  12:54:25 PM  Show Profile
hey...I found mine in Paris
by the way : I am looking for a cyrrilics print "Zenit 122" ...if anyone know , please tell me
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  1:04:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Hmm ok . Still I haven't yet seen a Z-122 Pobeda sold inside the former USSR .

Alain, I'll keep an eye for you for that 122 if you keep an eye out for me where to buy Elikon-3 (if you have one for yourself of course already).

Vlad.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  1:07:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
My Elikon-3 is from Germany, or most likely from former DDR

Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  1:14:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Yea I've been hunting for that camera for over a year already...
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 08 2010 :  04:41:26 AM  Show Profile
hey hey...
I just bought Elikon 3,quite new (but badly made!) , two weeks ago in Russia
now my Elikon serie is complete...
Sometime , I am lucky !
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1995 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 08 2010 :  08:35:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage
Juhany
Congratulations for your acquisition
According to my still "expert eyes" you have the gratest rarity on the Sport camera (regretably you didn't buy) once its normal lens is made by Kazan. an extremely rare early postwar assembly
regards
LP
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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1995 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 08 2010 :  08:39:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage
Tomlinson
My hurras on your acquisition the highly praised 1944 PhotoSniper
Regards
LP
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  3:22:31 PM  Show Profile
And now the latest cameras in my collection:



The early FED-1a (No.5298) with green curtains, case, passport and original box.




The "NO NAME" Kiev (No.6306313) with Lens Sonnar Zeiss-Opton 1,5/50.



Regards, Alexander
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  3:30:14 PM  Show Profile

Mmmm Alexander!
Thanks for your two cameras!
Possible to have more details about the passport of your Fed 1a (date, serial number of the lens).
And why green curtains?

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  4:00:39 PM  Show Profile
Hello Jacques,
sorry, it was my mistake. It is not a passport, but simply a user manual. The serial number of the lens is 5977. Why the curtains are green I don't know, but they are really green :


I have found these "green" curtains also in Princelle: "FED type 1a variant 8" (p.94)



Regards, Alexander
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  4:22:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Wow, those curtains ARE from 75 years ago...
But is there any early FEDs, noname-Kievs and Kyivs left to others than us? Or do the others need them?

Best regards,
Juhani
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  4:32:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
Alexander,

as I know they have installed green curtains when they didn't have the stuff for black curtains. So it's a real rarity, congratulations.

Your Kiev no name is another nice find, I have looked for it so long but I have never found any... Where do you have these 2 cameras from? :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  4:40:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
Juhani,

about 6000 FED 1a do exist, so there are a lot of them for us... :-) Ok, nobody knows how many survived the years and the war. But I think that there are more than 1000 or 2000 left for the collectors.

KIIVS are more rare, we don't know the number of built items until now. But.. nobody else than us needs them ;-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Mar 10 2010 :  8:33:28 PM  Show Profile
The engraving on the top plate appears to be the same as a model 1b (I think).
Is this correct, and if so are there any numbers as to how many had this engraving?

Thanks,
Steve
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  03:11:45 AM  Show Profile

Hello,
About your Fed, Alexander, I think it is a rarity. Anyway, I never saw another one: it has a "brushed" chrome which could be found (till now) only on 1a with vertical engravings.
This camera should be one of the first 1b, before the one with normal chrome (and always without accessory clip). And after the serial number of the lens, it is original.

As Ulrich says, the 1a are rare: about 6000 were originally made. And a good part of them were probably refurbished at the factory.

The first 1b (YCCP inscription, without clip) are much rarer: probably 1500 to 2000 were produced. As for yours, it is the first!

Concerning the curtains, there is always a camera for sale on eBay with such green ones: a 1d serial number 13xxxx (probably repairs). It is the first time too that I see that on a 1a/1b.

So: Congratulations!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  03:34:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Jacques: there does exist cromed ones of 1A (type 6), see previous page. And according to Aidas "Serial Number Range: #5.800-#6.000 Quantity: appr. 200 units".
Like Ulrich says it is also my opinion that a great lot of the early FEDs "died" already in WWII, and how many have been rebuilt after that & thus lost their old identity?


Best regards,
Juhani
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  04:09:37 AM  Show Profile

Hi Juhani,
There does exist brushed chrome (or galvanized) and plain chrome 1a: I absolutely agree.
But if Alexander's one is a 1b as it seems, it is the first time I see a galvanized 1b!!

As for the died and risen from the dead: impossible to answer your question!
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  04:24:36 AM  Show Profile
I have just checked that on Aidas's site: this # 5298 should be the real type B1.
Really, that classificator is much more convenient than a paper one...

Amitiés. Jacques.

Sorry Juhani: confusion of words in my previous messages. For me, brushed chrome=galvanized (or machined) opposed to plain chrome.
Blasted English!

Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 11 2010 05:00:33 AM
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
584 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  2:40:04 PM  Show Profile
I have one more galvanized FED-1 with No.6921, but already with accessory shoe (definitely 1b). It is very strange for me, that neither Princelle nor SSK-book tells anything about galvanized FED-1b.

Regards, Alexander
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  3:15:32 PM  Show Profile
The same confusion here. I also hace a galvanized camera, #2969.
This camera has the same top inscription of a 1b and also the second style viewfinder, rectangular with the step, not notched. Other than those two features all else is exactly as a 1a. By the serial number I would say I have a 1a but the inscription and viewfinder confuse me.

There seems to be a number of variables with both 1a and 1b cameras.

Steve
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  3:44:55 PM  Show Profile

For me, I discover things I had never heard of!
Alexander, your n° 6129 is a 1b (engraved YCCP)galvanized? So, a second one? Astonishing! (The shoe can have been added, as for some 1a).

Steve, your n° 2969 is another mystery. As you say, there seems to be a great variability between 1a and 1b. Difficult to imagine how the factory used their spare parts.

Thanks for all these novelties. Some more cameras to look for, now!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  3:51:03 PM  Show Profile
Jacques,

What is your guess as to which model my camera would be?
Keep in mind this camera does not have a shoe.

Thank You,
Steve


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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  4:11:39 PM  Show Profile
Hi Steve,

Princelle classifies Fed cameras after the engraving. If we add the second type of rangefinder, and if we follow him, no doubt, your camera is a 1b. Of course, if we only follow the serial number...
About the shoe, the first 1b don't have one (mine, n° 7122 is a regular 1b without shoe).

Another thing is the lens: what is the serial number? Is it a "one turn" or a "half turn"? The first ones were made for the 1a and the first 1b.

It would be very interesting to speculate about the making of your camera: how can it be "out of the rule" at that point (serial number and galvanization)?

All that is most exciting! But as you see, nothing new...

Amitiés. Jacques.


Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 11 2010 4:34:54 PM
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 11 2010 :  6:40:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Alexander, this is fascinating find! Fist time I see a galvanized 1b!! Congratulations! And so close to #6000!
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 12 2010 :  05:23:56 AM  Show Profile
Hi friend ...
I suggest :
To be the most precise possible when to classify our cameras:
It would be necessary not to use any more the word "galvanized" .
The process employed here (and what I learnt in "60's",when I was technical student) is called "scratching": it allowed an excellent precision of finish of surface a time when we did not still use grindstones ot chrome for finish.
The tool employed for this work is called "hand scraper".

So, According with the philosophy of JL Princelle, we can see there, in the irregularities of the drawing on the metal, a touching signature of those who made these cameras
--------------------------------------------------------------------
For those who want to know more about it, look here: in particular look at the aspect obtained on flat surfaces of machines (precision, approximately : 2 to 3 microns)

http://www.usinages.com/le-grattage-t1158-135.html
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 12 2010 :  10:35:56 AM  Show Profile

Of course you are right Alain. And we already talked of scratching together. By the way, which metal is scratched on our Feds?

Anyway, even not galvanized, these scratched 1b are the first I see!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 12 2010 :  11:44:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage

Yes, Alain, I agree. "Galvanized" is a chemical treatment of a metal surface and these FEDs are finished with a physical action that may be called "scratched" or more accurately, "burnished finish" or "given a circular patterned finish, lightly inscribed into the metal, using a machine tool".

Probably this finish (which varies greatly in individual patterns and characteristics from camera to camera) was made using a type of hand-held machine tool with rough filing stone attached to the end, much the same as one of the attachments seen on modern "dremel" tools, and which was used at FED for finishing and smoothing the rough edges off other parts during production.

Maybe to make it simple in conversation and writing "burnished finish" would be more accurate.


Regards, Bill

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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 13 2010 :  04:39:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
And didn't FED start with making electric drills, a Black & Decker copy? Which would have meant that they did have the machinery "at home"?

Best regards,
Juhani
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 13 2010 :  05:59:02 AM  Show Profile

Fine idea!
You are probably right, Juhani.

Amitiés. Jacques.
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 13 2010 :  10:53:32 AM  Show Profile
It was an hand tool.
I had such a tool in hand in the past (Tugsten steel made whith long handle (about 40 cm handle)
whith 3 rondish sharp hedges.
Whith it , we scrap chrom interiors cylinders on motor engines.
On our camera , metal is hard brass. Surface is hard chrome , no doubt, but you know , it is very difficult to have a clean flat surfaced brass under chrome. So the chrome finish is bad if you do not polish , a long time , the brass surface befaore chrom process.

My opinion is : in the factory they do not know how to do for a soft matt or bright chrome surface as well as they saw on Leica patterns. May be an ingeneer said " try to scrap the chrome as well as you do on FED drill machines"(do not forgot : machine tools making FED drill went from Ostereich at this time (read Makarenko text)whith this nice industrial surface look.

My friends, it was just for having an entertaining conversation about these enigmatic Fed!
Alain
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 13 2010 :  10:58:45 AM  Show Profile
PS: mine is N° 1964 (step window) "Trudkomunia"
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 13 2010 :  11:45:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage
Hi Alain,

I believe that much of this scratched or burnished finish was done with machine tools, although probably in small places on the top plate and the sides of the plates, such as around the viewfinder stepped window, they may have also used hand tools.

Of course the factory had machine tools, even at the beginning. It was 1934 ... electricity was available ... and they had electric drills to use which could take different drill bits with wire brushes and grinding stones on them. Othe parts of the early FEDs are buffed and polished by machine.

Here are some photos of my FED No. 1227 (the bottom plate) which show clear signs of having been finished with a drill-like machine, probably with a small circular wire brush attachment (in my own opinion) ;-)


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1246.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1254.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1263.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1272.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1282.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1332010_IMG_1285.jpg



Regards, Bill

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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  1:57:57 PM  Show Profile
Ok bill...
I agree ! you are right !
(good sharp "zorki" eyes!)
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  2:04:59 PM  Show Profile
just arrived yesterday from Canada :
zenit "DIRAMIC"

!
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1432010_IMG_6036.jpg

it is the first I have never seen so , I am very happy to complete my zenit collection (heavy collection , you know !)
Now, "Delta"zenit from USA is missing ..and also very rare "Meprozenit" from Japan.
if any one know how to buy "Delta" please tell me ....I need it.

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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  7:41:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage
OK Alain ... I will look for the Delta for you here in the US! Sometimes I see these Zenit-E cameras at the flea markets I go to.

Here is what arrived for me today ... Fed Stereo Lens No. 47 and this one is the first version, probably made in Poland.

This one comes with a FED Berdsk (Serial No. 180403), just as the one on page 109 of Princelle, lens No. 44 is also on a Berdsk.

So, maybe these early versions were all put on FED Berdsk cameras for some reason ... (or is it possible that the early ones are a real product of FED, made in the late 1940s and so put on the Berdsk model? ... probably they are just fakes, butmaybe worth thinking about!)

Regards, Bill


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1532010_IMG_1288.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1532010_IMG_1290.JPG

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  7:48:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Bill, congrats!! I want to ask everyone a question about these "Stemar" lens though. Anyone ever seen the nozzle for these? Ever?

Something like that?

http://www.novacon.com.br/sistereo3_arquivos/image022.jpg
Source: Luiz Paracampo

Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  8:09:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage

So far, I don't think anyone has seen a nozzle or prism unit for the FED Stereo Lens. That is one of the reasons that even the first version is considered to be fake. The nozzle brings the distance of the two images to be similar to the distance of the human eye and so produces a true stereo illusion. Without the nozzle you will not have as much of a stereo effect ... maybe almost none. When I get time I will try taking photos with this one I have and see what happens.

Maybe there can be some chance that the FED Stereo lenses were made in a small quantity and the nozzle was never made, but it is doubtful since nozzle / splitters were made years later for the KIEV and Zorki (although without a double lens ... just using a normal lens).

Regards, Bill

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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  7:43:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
All,

Steve (Bull Halsey) had asked me to post pictures of his two cameras he was talking about in this thread. Steve, I'll let you annotate them, sorry for the atrocious quality, I took these pictures with my blackberry phone, that's all I had with me when Steve was showing me the cameras.

Steve's 1a with a "b" engraving:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1732010_IMG00219-20100316-1853.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1732010_IMG00215-20100316-1852.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1732010_IMG00221-20100316-1856.jpg

Steve's "Stemar":

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1732010_IMG00216-20100316-1852.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1732010_IMG00217-20100316-1853.jpg

Steve, the stage is yours .

Vlad.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  7:52:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Bill,

I heard someone say once that these are Lomo Smena or Lubitel lenses in that Stemar, is that easy to check? Unfortunately I didn't think to do that when I was holding one in my hand that Steve had, we had a meeting going on... I wonder if anyone ever took one apart? Just curious what's under the hood if you take off those 4 screws.. . Anyone daring to try?

Vlad

Vlad

Vlad.
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  12:26:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage

Vlad,
I have heard they are Smena lenses ... but I don't know. Can be anything. I would not want to take mine apart. Interesting that Steve's is just one number away from mine. And on a different model of FED as well!

Regards, Bill

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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  12:36:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by nightphotoor is it possible that the early ones are a real product of FED, made in the late 1940s and so put on the Berdsk model?

Think again, why was that camera Berdsk? I think there was much more important things than stereo-lenses for 35mm cameras that time! Cameras were needed in wartime & just after, and even when factory was in exile, but not items like this.

Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  1:49:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Bill,

I'll try to examine Steve's camera closer next time, maybe he can bring it again to the next collectors meeting here.

Vlad
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  2:33:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage
Hi Juhani,

But here is the whole thing I said:

"So, maybe these early versions were all put on FED Berdsk cameras for some reason ... (or is it possible that the early ones are a real product of FED, made in the late 1940s and so put on the Berdsk model? ... probably they are just fakes, but maybe worth thinking about!)"

Although there are good military applications for stereo during war time, you are probably right that it would in no way be a priority to make 35 mm stereo lenses. And aside from that, there have never been seen, as far as I know, and leather cases, passports, or instructions for these lenses. And if I we to bet on the FED Stereo Lens being authentic FED product ... You and me, Juhani would be on the same side of that bet ... no good odds!

Regards, Bill

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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  3:10:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Bill, agreed!

Best regards,
Juhani
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  10:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
oh, and Steve, just to clarify something, I'm not asking if I can take apart your lens , just to look at it again in detail, I never really did beyond taking pictures last time

Vlad
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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 22 2010 :  11:19:40 AM  Show Profile
and to day, a new zenit 122s Snaiper set in red velvet case .
(original)
I never saw before


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2232010_snaiper 122 S set case.jpg

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BERRY alain
mermoz37
France
814 Posts
Posted - Mar 22 2010 :  11:21:14 AM  Show Profile
by the way ....if anyone know how to buy a cyrillics print Zenit 122 ...I am ready
thanks ....
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Mar 26 2010 :  2:56:07 PM  Show Profile
I jyst received the latest addition to my collection, a Beautiful TSVVS, 1950, #816.
I have to admit to all the positive reports about this camera. The weight and balance, brass body, very smooth shutter, and its clean appearance.

FED, where have you been hiding?

Steve
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4248 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 26 2010 :  6:20:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vlad's Homepage
Wow Steve!! Congrats!! You HAVE TO bring it to our next collectors society meeting so I can leave some fingerprints on it!
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Steve
Bull Halsey
USA
229 Posts
Posted - Mar 26 2010 :  8:30:23 PM  Show Profile
:-)
You will have to wear gloves !!

All kidding aside, I'm really surprised as to the build quality of this camera.
The technicians that assembled these cameras knew what they were doing. Obviously the plan was to put together a limited quantity of bodies.

The only thing that throws me is why the smaller viewfinder? Any ideas?

Steve

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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 27 2010 :  10:22:48 AM  Show Profile
Wonderful! Perhaps I will hunt for a 1950 one to put close to my 1949 TSVVS. But mine was already difficult to find...

The small viewfinder is said to be more precise and the yellow rangefinder would be better for contrast. All that in a plane. But is it a legend? If somebody knows...

My last camera is a Contax Ic with a beautiful and early Sonnar. It is now near its twin bother, my Ia. Both are perfectly working, and a bit OT, I fear! But I could not refrain... And there are too lovers of Contaxes here, he, Michel and Stephan?

Amitiés. Jacques.

Edited by - Jacques M. on Mar 27 2010 10:24:31 AM
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Stephan Van den Zegel
stephanvdz
Belgium
176 Posts
Posted - Mar 27 2010 :  5:44:21 PM  Show Profile
last in my collection...
leica n° 1505...
a retina 1 with a tessar...
and various things with zeiss names ...

but it's ot

Stephan
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 27 2010 :  6:27:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
Jacques,

I love the Contax too... I have a beautiful II and III and a IIIa. And I love the Leica IIIa and the M3 here... but that's all OT ;-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Jacques M.
France
2594 Posts
Posted - Mar 28 2010 :  04:04:21 AM  Show Profile

Fine!

A I(A) with mushroom release, Stephan?

Ulrich, I own some other Contaxes too, but I think the I are the mst interesting, like the Ia and Ib for Fed.

Perhaps the Boss will decide to close this topic, unless we can prove that Leicas are copies of Fed (and Contaxes of Kievs, of course)?

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Ulrich W.
uwittehh
Germany
832 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 28 2010 :  04:37:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit uwittehh's Homepage
Jacques,

I can not proove that, but I can go back to OnTopic :-)

What do you think about this lens?





Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de
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Juhani Halmeenmaki
cedricfan
Finland
1017 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Mar 28 2010 :  05:03:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit cedricfan's Homepage
Well, old news for me, I have one. Got it for free with a Zenit...

Best regards,
Juhani
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Stephan Van den Zegel
stephanvdz
Belgium
176 Posts
Posted - Mar 28 2010 :  10:25:09 AM  Show Profile
no sadly, n°1505 is now somekind of a IIc ... factory upgrade... but it has seen a lot of use, but mechanics are perfect...
got a black (converted) IIIc too... nice and pleasant to use
I also found a very nice 1938 Ditmar 16mm movie camera (with an integrated selenium cell) with some military history (american side)...

there was a contax II jean on ebay but I was not the only one to spot it, went away far too high for my actual income ;-)

I'm still actively looking for
- a fed-zorki with fast (and how knows slow ?) speed
- a contax 1
and someone who could repair my kiev88s (one without erratic slow speed, one with jammed shutter) ...



Stephan
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