ZK Zorki And other uncommon Jupiter lenses

Concerning J3 I tend to call it fake. I do not see any details that can convince me that this is Zorki lens with suitable number. It looks like the original but the devil is always in details. The most disgusting in this model are these Zeiss "ears". It seems that it is the knurled ring from late J3 with cuted away edges to bring the form of ears. The original ears in this serial number span were chrome plated and really well made. Engravings on this ring look like original, but "4" is of different form. There are also other details like shape of some numbers, size of bolts, etc.

I would also expect pressed Zeiss number on the lens block. Of course 1950 was a turbulent year for KMZ lenses. There could be many variations of design. But still I do not believe that it is original lens. It was very stupid for KMZ to make a knurled ring and then to cut it in order to produce ears. Very illogical and costly experiment with the design.

From all lenses you showed us I would buy only ZK 135. It is the only jewel there that is put to sell the rest of this folklore stuff.

These lenses (or another two newly developed fakes) are on sale at AVITO (500 euro each) - https://www.avito.ru/moskva/fototehnika/zorkiy_zk_85_mm_sonnar_i_bk_35_mm_biogon_563974631

As for the J3 - I completely agree with altix: "The most disgusting in this model are these Zeiss "ears". It seems that it is the knurled ring from late J3 with cuted away edges to bring the form of ears. The original ears in this serial number span were chrome plated and really well made." It is absolutely obvious for me that the "ears" are made from the late J3 because the signs of the cutter are clearly seen on the ring!

In my modest opinio these are the best fakes I saw...
Regards
LP

Although not authentic I regard these lenses as great collective pieces

Hi everyone!
Thanks for all these details! It's impressing how far they can go to make their fakes look realistic ...
I saw these items before they appeared on avito. Furthermore the seller told me he would never put it on avito as they are too valuable. He proposed me 20 000 rubles (340 euros) for each. And he seems to have a lot of other ... Fakes ... If I meet him again I would send you some pics ;)

By the way, from the same seller :





For me, it looks genuine...

It would be difficult to fake a collapsible mount.
KMZ used Zeiss's ones and did not produce such bodies by themselves, as far as I know.
Hope you won't propose all the lenses which are on the net...

Jacques.

Dear Jacques,

Of course I won't ;) ! I was just confused by this seller... he has a lot of stuff among which there are lots of fakes and some good things aswell. Many of these items are not on the net (two of them just came out on the web yesterday after I saw them ;) ).

This Sonnar is authentic and was a special series requested to equip Leica bodies during the war.

the remaining lenses were used on some first FED-Zorki

LP

Yes, I own one of these remaining lenses.
A Sonnar with M marking, and two different Zeiss numbers, so remounted. But by whom...
It works perfectly on my Fed S.

Jacques.

I am not sure that the J3 is a fake. I own a J3 from 1951 that has ears like the one shown here and an internal stamped in number but it is named Jupiter 3. So who would fake such a lens? And when I compare the ears to a ring on a normal J3 I don't belive that it is cut out (even if it looks so). The ears are much thicker than the ring.

See here:







Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Dear Ulrich,

everything could be. As I wrote that 1950 was a turbulent year for KMZ and one can spot dozens of design variations. I used as a reference a lens that is only few numbers from the lens what was shown.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/752015_1.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/752015_2.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/752015_3.JPG

The ears are of different form and are chrome plated. There are differences in engravings and the stopper bolt is on other position.

Now I see that your Jupiter 3 looks the same as ZK from 1950. Still the absence of Zeiss number on ZK is confusing. But it is possible to have ZK without Zeiss number and Jupiter with Zeiss glass. So there is still uncertainty about the lens but now I am not so sure that it is fake. Thank you.

with best regards
altix

Probably when the original Zeiss ears were all used, KMZ used other available knurled rings brought from Zeiss factory. KMZ workers modified the rings to make Zeiss-look design. It is not a very elegant method but is ok when you have tons of spare parts that you can use in this way.

Yes, that could be possible. Or maybe later in the years parts were used by KMZ that were not used by Zeiss before because they do not fit the Zeiss standards and that were not thrown away in the war confusion. We will never know it... ;-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

I think too that we must be cautious: we don't know in which order KMZ used all the parts which came from Germany...

Another lens for which I would like your opinion.

It's a 1951 jup 3, internal barrel made of brass, a very beautiful green coating on the first glass (impossible to shoot correctly). The usual lilac/blue tints are inside, with yellow. An astonishing rainbow!
I had seen only one other lens like this one, but it was in M42 mount, if I remember.
No ears and no possibility to unscrew to check if there is a Zeiss number.

I cannot "decide" if it is a Zeiss or KMZ lens...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/852015_DSCF2153.JPG

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Oh, congratulations Jacques! It seems that you have multicoated lens from 1951 Original German patent 1934 says in indirect way about possible multicoating of lenses. Who knows it could be that your Jupiter was some trial of Zeiss in multicoating procedure. But it could be that somebody coated the lenses recently. Who knows...

I have owned this lens since years.
But I have never seen such a green coating on another lens (except the Jup in another mount). It looks exactly like the green of fujifilms!

I will try this lens on a body. I have to, now....

Jacques.

Jacques,

Really nice lense ;)!! I never have never seen such a coating on jupiters, amazing!

By the way, one more fake spoted : https://www.avito.ru/moskva/fototehnika/obektiv_zk_502.0_1948_561445475

Cyril.

My friend has also jupiter-3 with ears!

Faking ZK's is new sport

Nice green coating Jacques, I also never seen such one
I'm not a ZK lover, since their price a going wild even in ex-soviet republics, I just have a Jupiter-3 kiev mount with ears and brass barrel, which perform very well!