What does "D" mean?

I doubt that the Fed Industar were always produced by Fed.
For example, it was strictly impossible at the beginning of the Fed production. Some early Feds even were equipped with Elmar lenses... We know too that Fed could not calculate themselves their optics at this time. And I am always surprised to see that the s/n of the Fed 1 lenses are regular for some, irregular for others, as if there were several places of production.

So, could Industar have been a generic name for an "optical bureau"? Did they produce lenses, or not? Were they a sort of militaro industrial complex, specialized in optical questions? Or were the camera makers really independant in this question which is most strategical? I only put questions; I think we cannot simplify the answer...

Probably Zoom and Altix could give us information...

Jacques.
PS: I have never seen one of these very early "KMZ 26m" mounted on Fed 2.

Hello Jacques

All lenses in the USSR are designed or at least verified by State Institute for Optics (GOI, founded 1918, see Princelle, page 32). In 1932 the first three FED-1 prototypes are produced with 50mm/3.5 made by VOOMP and with the help of GOI FED began to produce there own lenses (see Princelle, page 88).

The family names of lenses like Helios, Industar, Jupiter or Mir to name only some of them are not associated with one company each but was used by divers optical companies. But it would be interesting to know why this family names were choosed. Could it be that Jupiter stands for Zeiss copies for rangefinder cameras?

Best wishes - Guido

quote:

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Originally posted by Jacques M.


I doubt that the Fed Industar were always produced by Fed.
For example, it was strictly impossible at the beginning of the Fed production. Some early Feds even were equipped with Elmar lenses... We know too that Fed could not calculate themselves their optics at this time. And I am always surprised to see that the s/n of the Fed 1 lenses are regular for some, irregular for others, as if there were several places of production.

So, could Industar have been a generic name for an "optical bureau"? Did they produce lenses, or not? Were they a sort of militaro industrial complex, specialized in optical questions? Or were the camera makers really independant in this question which is most strategical? I only put questions; I think we cannot simplify the answer...

Probably Zoom and Altix could give us information...

Jacques.
PS: I have never seen one of these very early "KMZ 26m" mounted on Fed 2.

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Sure prewar I can imagine that lenses were made somewhere else where they had more knowledge than the Dzerzhinsky kids. Maybe FED made the lens body and the glass were made somewhere else. But I-26M started 1957 and I-61 and I-61LD are much later.

To me, these names "Industar, Jupiter, Helios" are names for kind of quality. Strange seems to me that Jup-11 got this name because it has 4 lenses in 3 groups, same as Industars, but maybe it got the superior name "Jupiter" because there were not many tele lenses.
We also know that GOI calculated lenses. Maybe they always did that for all lenses, to concentrate the knowlegde at one place, while production were at different places.

Might be that KMZ I-26M is so rare and hard to find.

Thanks Guido.
About the first Feds, I have seen several ones with an Elmar-Leica, with a one turn distance ring. The same ring we find on the "labelled" lenses made for the 1a-s.

And for the Jupiters, you are of course right about the consanguinity (!) with the Zeiss Sonnar and Biogon. It would be interesting to check with the other ones: do they have Zeiss ancestors too? Not time enough to look for that now.

My general idea was: in a planned production, sensible to what is strategical, the drawing of lenses and their production should be strictly controlled. You answered about GOI (I had forgotten them!). Nothing about the places of production? Yes, I'm a bit far from the original subject, I fear!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Lenny: in the 1930/50 years, there was nothing best than the 4/13,5cm Sonnar in its category...

Hello Jacques

GOI was not the factory but there was an associated factory or better said research laboratory there too. As I understand they were located in Leningrad (Saint Petersburg) and had much names over the time: GOZ (1921), VTOMP as part of TOMP concern (1928), VOOMP (?), GOMZ (1932), LOOMP (1962) and LOMO (1965). All that according to Princelle, page 32ff.

Best wishes - Guido

We have the same readings, Guido.
I was just reading that same page!

Jacques.

Some months ago, Zoom told me in private that GOI was not the only institut, not only they calculated lenses. If I remember right, KMZ also had their ingйniers who calculated lenses. Also there is LITMO institut.
Maybe he can confirm.

About the name, they are related to optical formula.
Some exceptions exists, but all Jupiter are Sonnar (tele 4/3 and normal). Biogon is Sonnar regarding to diagram also, so it is still Jupiter...
Biotar is Helios..
Biometar is Vega...
Mir is rйtrofocus wide angle...

Talking about exception, Helios-95AT is not Biotar.. Like Helios-123...
But general rule works almost every lens.

Later name Zenitar became name for all Zenit lenses, like Arsat for Arsenal, so this systиme was lost.

I always suppose: Zeus(greek)/Zeiss => Jupiter(roman).

http://xalmaz.narod.ru

Double post, sorry.

quote:

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Originally posted by xalmaz

I always suppose: Zeus(greek)/Zeiss => Jupiter(roman).

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I think you're right.
But also many soviet lenses are usualy named of stellar object (even Mir is a name of star named Mira). But many exceptions also (Russar, mto, Industar...).

BTW, you can find explanation/supposition of all soviet lenses names here : http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/marks.html