ZK Zorki And other uncommon Jupiter lenses

Hello everyone !
I bought recently a soviet ZK 85 mm, but after having a look on sovietcam dot com I have some doubts concerning the authenticity of the item...
It's really weird. The optical bloc seems ok (with serial number), but the digits on the rings are not drawn as it should be (3 and 4).
Is this a real ZK? What do you think?





Help !

Hi Trazin

I would say that it is fake. It seems to me that Zeiss numbers are also fake engravings. They should be deeply stamped. There are some other cosmetic differences from early Jupiter and Zk lenses.

altix

Thank you for your reply ! I think the same, so I will give it back to the seller.

I also saw other ZK and BK there. They seem genuine but I'm still not sure. Here are some pictures. What do you think about it?

Hi Trazin,

For the Jup 9, I share Altix's opinion, alas...
About the other lenses you show, the Jup 12 should be genuine. But it would be interesting to know if it has a Zeiss number too...

I don't know for the Jup 3. Other photos would be necessary.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

The BK barrel looks like genuine but I would say that both lenses are fakes. BK should not have Soviet lenses as this BK has. And the aperture ring of ZK looks like nothing to do with the Zeiss.But as Jacques mentioned, more pictures are needed. It seems that fake makers became more and more professional.

Hi Jacques!

I already get rid of the J-9.
I also think the J-12 is genuine. I would check the Zeiss number but I don't know how to open it... The seller wants 350 euros for it, do you think it's a good price?
For the J-3 there is no Zeiss number inside, just a hand drawn number (the seller told me not every ZK has it, I don't know if it's true). His shape is really strange, it looks like a PT1610 with a large ring. However the PT1610 was produced only in 1948 according to sovietcams dot com. Which picture would you need to be more precise?

Amitiés, Cyril

Hi Altix,

You're right. The lens look soviet... Maybe it's a real ZK on wich they put soviet lens ? Maybe because the original lens were in bad condition? If both are fake, it's really well done...

Dear Trazin

Zeiss number on BK you can see without dismantling it. Some lenses can come without the number but the lens block on BK you've shown is not original.

Dear Altix,

Thanks for information! I had some doubts.. you gave me confirmation. And what do you think about the J-3?

more pictures are needed, from 4 sides at least. Jacques can judge better than I but I think it is also fake.

I'm really impressed by the skills of the guy who made these fakes ... the mistakes are really hard to detect.

If the question of price 350 Euro or more why not to make double profit by mixing a genuine lens with the Jupiter. Two lenses would show some features of original and on every arguments against the originality there would be counterargument. I mean that the barrel of BK could be original. And don't be fooled by the beauty ring .

Concerning the BK and Jup 12, there was certainly a great mess at KMZ's in the 1950-52 years...

I own three of these Jup 12, from the years 1951 and 52. They are all different, either in diameter of the front aluminium barrel, or in the visible inside, near the beauty ring. Two of them have a thread for a 40,5mm filter,but not at the same place (!), two again have a (correct) Zeiss number....

The BK you show looks like one of my 1951 Jup 12, at least about the aluminium barrel, which is exactly the same. Idem for the inside with the design between the diaph range and the glass. My 5101884 belongs to a series of 2000 Biogons which were made only in LTM mount by Zeiss. So, if this BK has a Zeiss number around (2)84xxxx, it should be genuine...

But you will be sure only when the lens is in your hand...!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

dear Jacques,

The coating tells that it is neither Zeiss nor early KMZ optical block. But the barrel as you said most probably is authentic. As for myself I would not buy this lens.

best regards,
altix

You are right, Altix.
There is some uncertainty about the coating which is really very blue.
I had not looked at it correctly.

But I would be curious to know if the rear triplet has Zeiss origins.
These lenses were such a "meccano"...

Jacques.

Very interesting metaphor, Jacques! But "meccano" was designed to make children a creative constructors. I would say it is more like "lego": Independent of what blocks you use from the constructor kit at the end you get Jupiter 12

Unfortunatly I didn't took picture from the rear...

That's all:
On the the ZK-50 optical block there are the same kind of inscription as those you can see on the ZK-135's block.
































hébergement gratuit d'images

Dear Trazin. Take ZK 135 and run away . No doubt it is genuine.

It is funny enough but here is another lens with close scratched number. The number was replaced with another. Probably the optical block was adjusted to another barrel initially and the person who marked made a mistake. But you see that the person who made both engravings was the same man or woman.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/452015_zk2.jpg




http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/452015_zk1.JPG

Wow ! Obviously you are right, the same guy (or girl) held both objectives in his hands some 67 years ago, amazing !
There is the same kind of scrached numbers on the J-3's optical block. So maybe it's also genuine ?!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trazin

Wow ! Obviously you are right, the same guy (or girl) held both objectives in his hands some 67 years ago, amazing !
There is the same kind of scrached numbers on the J-3's optical block. So maybe it's also genuine ?!

---

You know, there is a sort of bet each time I buy one of these lenses: genuine or fake? Partly or completely? If partly, it corresponds to which possible history? and so on...

So, good luck if you join the fans of these lenses!

Jacques.